Национализам и верска омраза

anakin напиша: PREMNOGU SI NEGATIVEN ZA EDEN VLAV- RUMUNEC KOJ I NE E TOLKU STAR ZATOA STO PRIPADJA NA DACHI ,KOI SE DOJDENI  OD RIM A MNOGU TI ZNAES SO KOJ JAZIK ZBORUVAA MAKEDONCITE "SLOVENI"?? - TOJ TERMIN PIKNI SI GO ZAD SHAPKATA

 Vlasite ne se Rumuni, odi educiraj se malku i da vidis deka ima razlika vo entitetite pomegju Dako-Romanians ,Aromanians, Megleno-Romanians, i Istro-Romanians
 Dodeka prvite se bliski so Rumunite, drugite nemaat vrska so niv, i nivnite koreni na Balkanot se drugi.

moira напиша: Neonic напиша: moira напиша: Neonic напиша:  Si dosol tuka vo 6ti VEK na teritorija na Makedonija kako nomadsko pleme Sloveni, dodeka Vlasite bile na ovie prostori uste pred Hrista,Anticka Makedonija i za vreme na Riskoto Carstvo.  Vlaskiot jazik e eden od najbliskite jazici po gramaticka forma so Latinskiot jazik, toa kazuva koj kolku e star kako etnos na ovie prostori.. So koe pravo monopoliziras iminja na geografski teritorii na koi ne si ziveel samo ti, tuku i drugi entiteti?????   Smiri si gi strastite i razbistri si gi mislite Argumentite sto gi kazuvas vo "samoodbrana" voopsto ne ti drzat, osobeno sega koga "progleda".  Nemoj samo da me ubeduvas deka Aleksandar Veliki ti e nekoj pra pra pra dedo  Kako Vlasite kako entitet koj bil dolgo na ovie prostori si go zadrzal jazikot, a vie "antickite makedonci" ste go primile slovenskiot?(pod pretpostavka,ako mi kazes deka imate nesto zaednicko so antickite makedonci) ???? Morav ova da go napravam da postiram na stranski jazik, iako postojano se bunam protiv toa ama nemam vreme da preveduvam: Аромуни (Арумуни, Армани, Куцовласи, Власи, Цинцари) су романски народ, који живи на Балканском полуострву. Живе претежно у северној Грчкој, Албанији, Македонији и Бугарској, а велики број их се одселио са поменутих подручја у Румунију. Немају своју државу. У Македонији су концентрисани око Битоља, Крушева и Охрида. У прошлости, централно место им је био град Москопоље у источној Албанији. Аромуни говоре аромунским језиком, који припада романској групи индоевропске породице језика. Религиозно опредељени Аромуни су углавном православне вероисповести. Некада су били познати по бављењу трговином, екстензивним сточарством (фета сир), угоститељством, итд. Аромуна укупно има око 151.000, од тога у Грчкој 65.000, Румунији 50.000, Албанији 22.000, Македонији 10.000, Бугарској 4.000. Мањи број Аромуна живи и у Србији, где су од стране Републичког завода за статистику службено признати под именом Цинцари, док су у Македонији признати под именом Власи. У доба када су остали балкански народи развили национални корпус и дефинисали нације, Цинцари су као мања етничка група хришћанске вере учествовали у националним покретима других, блиских, народа. Аутори из XIX века Цинцаре описују на следећи начин: Цинцари се нису изградили као народ. Њима је недостајало неколико битних елемената које чине неку групу народом (већи број, култура, прошлост, територија и др.) Нису имали своје писмо те, природно, нису израдили ни заједнички књижевни језик. У свом националном осећању они су се међусобно битно разликовали: осећали су се блиским или и исто што и Грци, Арбанаси, Срби, Бугари или Румуни. Али било их је који су желели да буду само Цинцари. У једно време осећала се и међу њима тежња да постану народ. To ce десило, као и код других народа, у доба просвећености a после француске револуције и устанака грчких и српских. Неколико чињеница указују на овај покрет. Један Цинцарин, Кавалиотис, москопољски свештеник, који се упознао са Доситејем Обрадовићем у Венецији, издао је речник, а други Цинцарин, Данил, превео је јеванђеље на цинцарски. Михајло Бојаџић штампао је 1813 граматику маћедонско-цинцарског језика, a пре њега написао је један сасвим млад човек неку врсту историје Цинцара, са жељом да покаже да Цинцари нису „људи последње врсте“, него да имају лепу прошлост, и да су и они народ или, како он каже, „нација“ лепих, можда и изузетних особина. Pozdrav od pra pra pra pra ...... vnukata na Aleksandar Makedonski

  SAKAS JAS DA TI CITIRAM GRCKI  IZVORI ZA "MAKEDONCITE" ????? Daj mi nekoj validna statija ,od ugleden nauccen institut,za potekloto na Vlasite a ne nekoi SRPSKI BLJUVOTINI ,

Самиот си направи конфликт минимизирајки друг народ.Незнам кај ти беше паметот

Па да ти кажам право кога ке се навратам на неговиот прв пост и еве последниве се гледа зошто викаат Влашки Македонец.
Тој си има се пута 2,дупла држава,дупла нација,дупли јазик па дури и дупло мислење,негова среќа се е различно едно со друго

Vlachs

Encyclop?dia Orbis Latini


A European people constituting the major element in the populations of Romania and Moldova, as well as smaller groups located throughout the Balkan Peninsula, south and west of the Danube River. Although their Slav neighbours gave them the name Vlachi (or Vlasi, in East Slavic Volokhi), from which the term Vlachs is derived, the Vlachs call themselves Romani, Romeni, Rumeni, or Aromani.

See Wallachians, Walloons, Welschen etc.

The Vlachs emerged into history in the European Middle Ages, primarily in the region south of the Danube. Since the 19th century the Rumanian historians traditionally claim the Vlachs to be descendants of the ancient Romans who in the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD occupied Dacia, a Roman province located in the regions of Transylvania and the Carpathian Mountains of modern Romania. Another theory suggests that their ancestors were a Thracian tribe, native to the Roman province of Dacia, which intermarried with the Roman colonists and assimilated their language and culture. After the Romans evacuated Dacia (AD 271), the area was subjected to a series of barbarian invasions. According to some scholars, the Romanized Dacians remained in the area, probably taking refuge in the Carpathian Mountains. They remained there for several centuries as shepherds and primitive farmers, until conditions settled and they returned to the plains.

The Romanized Dacian population may have moved south of the Danube when the Romans left Dacia. After the barbarian invasions subsided, the Vlachs, seen in this theory as a later group of immigrants, moved into the area from their Romanized homelands south of the Danube or elsewhere in the Balkans. This theory cites the major role the Vlachs played in the formation and development of the Second Bulgarian Empire (also known as the Empire of Vlachs and Bulgars; founded 1185) as evidence that the centre of the Vlach population had shifted south of the Danube.

By the 13th century the Vlachs were reestablished in the lands north of the Danube, including Transylvania, where they constituted the bulk of the peasant population. From Transylvania they migrated to Walachia ("Land of the Vlachs") and Moldavia, which became independent principalities in the 13th and 14th centuries and combined to form Romania at the end of the 19th century.

Other Vlachs migrated to other regions of the Balkan Peninsula. The Macedo-Vlachs, or Tzintzars, settled on the mountains of Thessaly. According to the 12th-century Byzantine historian Anna Comnena, they founded the independent state of Great Walachia, which covered the southern and central Pindus Mountain ranges and part of Macedonia. (After the establishment of the Latin Empire at Constantinople in 1204, Great Wallachia was absorbed by the Greek Despotate of Epirus; later it was annexed by the Serbs, and in 1393 it fell to the Turks.) Another Vlach settlement, called Little Wallachia, was located in Aetolia and Acarnania. In addition, Vlachs known as Morlachs or Mavrovlachi ("Black Wallachians"), inhabited areas in the mountains of Montenegro, Herzegovina, and northern Albania as well as on the southern coast of Dalmatia, where they founded Ragusa (modern Dubrovnik). In the 14th century some Morlachs moved northward into Croatia. In the 15th century others, later called ?i?i, settled in the Istrian Peninsula.

Aromanians
Aromanians (also called: Arumanians or Macedo-Romanians; in Aromanian they call themselves arum?ni, arm?ni, r?m?ni or arom?ni) are a people living throughout the southern Balkans, especially in northern Greece, Albania, and Republic Macedonia , and as an emigrant community in Romania (Dobruja). They are the second most populous group of Vlachs, behind modern-day Romanians (though today, the word 'Vlach' refers only to the Latin-speaking people south of the Danube).
They speak the Aromanian language, a Romance language closely related to Romanian. Due to the common language foundations, historians believe that the language link with Romanian was interrupted between the 7th and 9th century, after the most important features of the language were formed.
The name Aromanian, just as Romanian, derives directly from Latin Romanus ("Roman") through regular sound changes. Adding "a" in front of certain words that begin with a consonant is a feature of the Aromanian language. An older form of "rum?n", was still found in early 19th century, in folk songs in Greece. In Albania, the most common form is r?m??i, with occasional forms rum??i and rom??i.
Vlachs was a term used in the Medieval Balkans, as an exonym for all the Romanic people of the region, but nowadays, it is commonly used only for the Aromanians and Meglenites, the Romanians being named Vlachs only in historical context. See also: Etymology of Vlach.
Another name used to refer to the Aromanians (mainly in the Slavic countries such as Serbia and Bulgaria) is "tsintsar", which is derived from the way the Aromanians say the word 'five': "tsintsi".
In Greece, Aromanians are not regarded as an ethnic minority, since they do not proclaim a non-Hellenic national identity, instead being considered Latin-speaking Greeks. Their origins are disputed. The Romanian hypothesis contends that Aromanians came to northern Greece from the Danube region; the opposing Greco-Aromanian theory is that they descend from the Romanised, local Greek population. Other theories on the possible origins of Greco-Aromanians describe them as:
The descendants of Roman colonisers and soldiers, who would receive agricultural lands as payments for their services,

It is however clear that until the 7th - 9th century, Romanians and Aromanians spoke the same eastern variant of Vulgar Latin, often known as Proto-Romanian.

Despite the evident Romanian linguistic connection, most Aromanians in Greece today identify as Greeks and heirs to the Byzantine tradition. It is interesting to note that Greek-speakers have also called themselves Romans (?????? Romii) well into modern times in reference to the Greek-speaking East Roman or Byzantine Empire, which called itself Romania several centuries before the modern Balkan nation-state of the same name was conceived. It is in this context that Aromanians played an important role in the Greek War of Independence against the Ottoman Empire and generally in Greek society. Prominent Aromanians in Greece have included Ioannis Kolettis, one of the first prime ministers, Evangelos Averof, minister of Defence during the Balkan Wars and Konstantinos Krystallis, the famous poet.
The pressure on Aromanians to assimilate can be traced back to the 18th century, when assimilation efforts were encouraged by the Greek missionary Kosmas Aitolos (1714-1779) who taught that Aromanians should speak Greek because as he said "it's the language of our Church" and established over 100 Greek schools in northern and western Greece.
In 1941, after the Nazi occupation of Greece, some Aromanian nationalists created an autonomous Vlach state under fascist Italian control: the Principality of Pindus. However, this fascist puppet state did not survive the Second World War.
The Aromanians, mostly herdsmen living in high mountain areas (especially in the Pindus area) in northern Greece never had a complete education in their language. Although Romania subsidised schools until 1948, the communist regime ended all links, and there is currently almost no education for Aromanian children in their mother tongue.
The European Parliamentary Assembly examined a report on the Aromanians in 1997, and adopted a recommendation that the Greek government should do whatever is necessary to respect their culture and facilitate education in Aromanian and its use in schools, churches and the media. However, efforts to promote the Aromanian language in Greece have often been controversial amongst the Aromanians themselves, many of whom vehemently reject any idea of an officially-sanctioned distinction between them and other Greeks, often due to fear of discrimination by mainstream Greek society. On the other hand, there is a small but vocal minority within the community which strongly supports such efforts. On a visit to Metsovo, Epirus in 1998, Greek President Costis Stephanopoulos called on Aromanians to speak and teach their language, but little has been done in practical terms since then.

Aromanians in Albania
The second largest Aromanian community lives in Albania, counting between 100,000 and 200,000 people. There are currently timid attempts to establish education in their native language in the town of Divjaka. The Aromanians, under the name "Vlachs", are a recognised national minority in the Albanian constitution. For the last years there seems to be a renewal of the former policies of supporting and sponsoring of Romanian schools on the behalf of the Vlachs of Albania. As a recent article in the Romanian media points out, the kindergarten, primary and secondary schools in the Albanian town of Divjaka where the local Vlach pupils are taught classes both in Aromanian and Romanian were granted substantial help directly from the Romanian government. The only Aromanian language church in Albania, the 'Schimbarea la fata' of Korce (Curceaua) was given 2 billion lei help from the Romanian government too.

Aromanians in Republic Macedonia
According to official government figures, there are 9,695 Aromanians in Republic Macedonia, even though other sources estimate their numbers as high as 20,000 or even more than 100.000 according to their associations' and other estimates[1]. The Aromanians are recognised as an ethnic minority, and are hence represented in parliament and enjoy ethnic, cultural, linguistic and religious rights and the right to education in their language.
They have also received financial support from the Romanian government, which made recognition of Republic Macedonia's independence conditional on the extension of minority rights to the Aromanians.

Aromanians in Romania
Since the Middle Ages, due to the Turkish occupation and the destruction of their cities, such as Moscopole, many Aromanians fled their homeland in the Balkans to settle the Romanian principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia, which had a similar language and a certain degree of autonomy from the Turks. These immigrant Aromanians were assimilated into the Romanian population.
In 1860, the Romanian government opened almost 100 schools in Greece and the Ottoman territories of Macedonia and Albania in an attempt to inculcate a sense of modern Romanian national identity in a population which historically identified with the Byzantine tradition.
In 1925, 47 years after Dobruja was incorporated into Romania, King Carol II of Romania gave the Aromanians land to settle in this region, which resulted in a significant migration of Aromanians into Romania.
There are currently between 25,000 and 50,000 Aromanians in Romania, most of which are concentrated in Dobruja. Due to their cultural closeness to ethnic Romanians, most of them do not consider themselves to be a distinct ethnic minority but rather a "cultural minority". Recently, there has been a growing movement in Romania, both by Aromanians and by Romanian lawmakers, to recognise the Aromanians either as a separate cultural group or as a separate ethnic group, and extend to them the rights of other minorities in Romania, such as mother-tongue education and representatives in parliament.

... I OVA SPORED TEBE KE BIDE NERESPEKTABILEN IZVOR ....

Изменето од moira - 26.Ноември.2007 во 03:17

OD OVIE PRETPOSTAVKI I NAGAGANjA, BIDEJKI SPORED TEBE SE PRETPOSTAVKI, MOZE DA SE VIDI KOI SE I KOGA SE IDENTIFIKUVAAT VLASITE NA OVIE PROSTORI, I DEKA PODOLU NAVEDENOTO OD TEBE:".... dodeka Vlasite bile na ovie prostori uste pred Hrista, Anticka Makedonija ....." NE E TOCNO