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Asya ![]() Сениор ![]() Регистриран: 14.Јуни.2008 Статус: Офлајн Поени: 902 |
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http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article8044.asp
The Saints of the Orthodox Church George Bebis, Ph.D. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ST. NEKTARIOS GOD AND HOLINESS It must be stated at the beginning that the only true "saint" or holy one (Hagios) is God Himself. The Bible states "For I am the Lord your God; you shall name yourselves holy and keep yourselves holy, because I am holy ... " (Levit. 11:44; 19:2 and 20:7). Man becomes holy and "sainted" by participation in the holiness of God. Holiness or sainthood is a gift (charisma) given by God to man, through the Holy Spirit. Man's effort to become a participant in the life of divine holiness is indispensable, but sanctification itself is the work of the Holy Trinity, especially through the sanctifying power of Jesus Christ, who was incarnate, suffered crucifixion, and rose from the dead, in order to lead us to the life of holiness, through the communion with the Holy Spirit. In the Second Letter to the Thessalonians St. Paul suggests: "But we are bound to thank God always for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because from the beginning of time God chose you to find salvation in the Spirit that consecrates you, (en agiasmo Pneumatos) and in the truth that you believe. It was for this that He called you through the Gospel we brought, so that you might possess for your own the splendor of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2: 13–14). CATEGORIES OF SAINTS Through the work of the Holy Trinity all Christians could be called saints; especially in the early Church as long as they were baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity, they received the Seal of the Spirit in chrismation and frequently participated in the Eucharist. In the same spirit St. Paul, when writing to the Churches he had visited, calls all the faithful "saints." Writing to the Ephesians, he addresses "the saints who live in Ephesus" (1:1); writing to the Corinthians he uses the same expressions (2 Cor. 1:11). St. Basil, commenting on this point, writes that Paul refers to all those who are united with God, who is the Being, the Life and the Truth (Against Eunomius, II, 19). Furthermore, St. Paul writes to the Colossians that God has reconciled men by Christ's death, "so that He may present you before Himself holy, without blemish and innocent in His sight" (1:22). In our society, however, who can be addressed as a saint? Who are those men and women and children who may be called saints by the Church today? Many Orthodox theologians classify the saints in six categories: The Apostles, who were the first ones to spread the message of the Incarnation of the Word of God and of salvation through Christ. The Prophets, because they predicted and prophesied the coming of the Messiah. The Martyrs, for sacrificing their lives and fearlessly confessing Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Savior of mankind. The Fathers and Hierarchs of the Church, who excelled in explaining and in defending, by word and deed, the Christian faith. The Monastics, who lived in the desert and dedicated themselves to spiritual exercise (askesis), reaching, as far as possible, perfection in Christ. The Just, those who lived in the world, leading exemplary lives as clergy or laity with their families, becoming examples for imitation in society. Each and every one among all these saints has his or her own calling and characteristics: they all fought the "good fight for the faith" (1 Tim. 6:12 and 2 Tim. 4:7). All of them applied in their lives the scriptural virtues of "justice, piety, fidelity, love, fortitude, and gentleness" (1 Tim. 6:11). THE CONCEPT OF THEOSIS The ultimate goal of the saint is to imitate God and live the life of deification (theosis). St. Maximos the Confessor (seventh century) writes that the saints are men who have reached theosis; they have avoided unnatural development of the soul, that is, sin, and tried to live the natural way of life (i.e., living according to created nature), turning and looking always towards God, thus achieving total unity with God through the Holy Spirit (On Theology, 7.73). It may be stated here that the Saints are first of all "friends" of God. Secondly, through their genuine piety and absolute obedience to God, they pleased Him and have therefore been "sanctified" both in soul and body, and subsequently glorified in this world. Third, they have been accepted in God's bosom after their passing from the world into eternal life. Fourth, many of them have been given special "grace" or "favor" to perform miracles either before their departure from this world or after. Fifth, they have been granted the special gift to pray and intercede for those still living in this world and fighting the "good fight" for the glory of God and their own perfection in Christ. This intercession springs from the fact that they also are part of the "Communion of Saints". They share prayers and good works with Christians on earth and there is a constant interaction and unity between the glorified saints in Heaven and Christians who still live in the world. THE INTERCESSION OF THE SAINTS Mosaic Icon of St. George The fact that Christians ask the prayers of saints and their intercession is prefigured in the New Testament. St. Paul asks the Christian Ephesians, Thessalonians, Colossians and Romans to pray for him (Ephes. 6:19, 1 Thesal. 5:25; Colos. 4:3, and Rom. 15:30-31). In every Liturgy, we ask God the Father to accept, on our behalf, "the prayers and the intercession" of all the Saints who now live in heaven. The Fathers of the Church also accept as a matter of course the prayers and the intercession of all the saints. In one of his letters, St. Basil explicitly writes that he accepts the intercession of the apostles, prophets and martyrs, and he seeks their prayers to God (Letter 360). Then, speaking about the Forty Martyrs, who suffered martyrdom for Christ, he emphasizes that "they are common friends of the human race, strong ambassadors and collaborators in fervent prayers" (Chapter 8). St. Gregory of Nyssa asks St. Theodore the Martyr "to fervently pray to our Common King, our God, for the country and the people" (Encomium to Martyr Theodore). The same language is used by St. Gregory the Theologian in his encomium to St. Cyprian. St. John Chrysostom says that we should seek the intercession and the fervent prayers of the saints, because they have special "boldness" (parresia), before God. (Gen. 44:2 and Encomium to Julian, Iuventinus and Maximinus, 3). THE VENERATION OF THE SAINTS In the Orthodox Church the worship (latreia) given to God is completely different from the honor (tim) of love (agape) and respect, or even veneration (proskynesis), "paid to all those endowed with some dignity" (St. John Chrysostom, Hom. III, 40). The Orthodox honor the saints to express their love and gratitude to God, who has "perfected" the saints. As St. Symeon the New Theologian writes, "God is the teacher of the Prophets, the co-traveller with the Apostles, the power of the Martyrs, the inspiration of the Fathers and Teachers, the perfection of all Saints ... " (Catechesis, I). Fresco from the catacomb on the Vie Latina, Rome Throughout early Christianity, Christians customarily met in the places where the martyrs had died, to build churches in their honor, venerate their relics and memory, and present their example for imitation by others. Interesting information on this subject derives from the Martyrdom of St. Polycarp (ch. 17-18), according to which the early Christians reverently collected the remains of the saints and honored them "more than precious stones." They also met on the day of their death to commemorate "their new birthday, the day they entered into their new life, in Heaven." To this day the Orthodox have maintained the liturgical custom of meeting on the day of the saint's death, of building churches honoring their names, and of paying special respect to their relics and icons. The Seventh Ecumenical Council (787 A.D.), in summarizing this practice of the Church, declares that "we adore and respect God our Lord; and those who have been genuine servants of our common Lord we honor and venerate because they have the power to make us friends with God the King of all." The feast days and the celebrations honoring the saints had become a common practice by the fourth century. The twentieth canon of the Council of Gangra in Asia Minor (between the years 325 and 381) anathematizes those who reject the feast days of the saints. So great was the esteem in which the Apostles, prophets, and martyrs were held in the Church, that many writings appeared describing their spiritual achievements, love and devotion to God. Together with the Martyrdom of St. Polycarp , information on the veneration of the Saints derives from the Martyrdom of the Martyrs of Scilli, a small town in North Africa (end of the second century). The list of sources indudes St. Athanasius' Life of St. Anthony; St. Basil's Homily honoring the "Forty Martyrs"; Gregory of Nyssa's Homily honoring St. Theodore; St. John Chrysostom also delivered a considerable number of sermons dedicated to the Martyrs of the Church. RELICS OF VARIOUS SAINTS AND MARTYRS The Fathers, and all early Christians in general, paid especially great respect to the relics of the martyrs. In addition to the sources already mentioned, Eusebius of Caesarea, the Church historian, says that "those who suffered for the glory of Christ always have fellowship with the living God" (Church History, 5:1). In the Apostolic Constitutions (5:1) the martyrs are called "brothers of the Lord" and "vessels of the Holy Spirit." This helps to explains the special honor and respect which the Church paid to the relics of the martyrs. St. Basil the Great, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, and St. John Chrysostom remind us that the relics of the martyrs "are filled with spiritual grace," that even their tombs are filled with a special "blessing." This Patristic practice still continues today, and people from all over the world visit churches that possess the relics of martyrs and saints. Also, according to the ancient tradition, the consecration of new churches takes place with the deposition of holy relics in the Holy Table of the sanctuary. Great controversies have occured in the past over the special honor due to the icons of Christ as well as those of the saints of the Church. The Iconclastic controversies which began in Byzantium in the seventh century shook the entire church. The Fathers of the Church, however, declared quite clearly that the honor belongs to the "prototype" and not to the material image of Christ or the Saints. The Acts of the Fourth session of the Seventh Ecumenical Council at Nicaea (787 A.D.) illuminate this particular point: "We accept (aspazometha) the word of the Lord and his Apostles through which we have been taught to honor (timan) and magnify (megalynein) in the first place Her who is properly and truly the Mother of God (Theotokos) and exalted above all the heavenly Powers; also the holy and angelic Powers; the blessed and all-lauded Apostles; and the glorious Prophets and the triumphant Martyrs who fought for Christ; holy and God fearing Doctors, and all holy men; to seek their intercession (presveies), to make us at home with the all-royal God of all, so long as we keep his commandments and strive to live virtuously. Moreover we accept (aspazometha) the image of the honorable and life-giving Cross, and the holy relics of the saints; and we receive the holy and venerable images; we accept them and we embrace them, according to the ancient traditions of the Holy Catholic Church of God, that is to say our holy Fathers, who also received these things and established them in all the most holy Churches of God and in every place of His dominion. These honorable and venerable images, as has been said, we honor, accept and reverently venerate (timitikosproskynoumen): the image of the incarnation of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, and that of our immaculate Lady, the all-holy Mother of God, from whom he pleased to take flesh and to save and deliver us from all impious idolatry; also the images of the holy and incorporeal Angels, who appeared to the just as men. Likewise we also venerate the figures and the effigies (morphas, eikonismata) of the divine and all-lauded Apostles, the God-speaking Prophets, and the suffering martyrs and holy men, so that through their representations (anazografiseos) we may be able to be led back in memory and recollections to the prototype, and participate in their holiness" (Nicene and Post–Nicene Fathers , Vol 14, p. 541). THE FEAST DAYS OF THE SAINTS ICON OF THE THEOTOKOS The early Christians used to meet on the name-day of a saint, which in practice usually was the day of his death. These gatherings took place either around the tomb of the saint or in the church, which kept and preserved his holy relics, or in churches with great historical and theological significance. Such a gathering, called a feast-day or festival (Panegyris), commemorates the memory of the saint. The faithful participate in these feasts to listen to an encomiastic speech praising the deeds or the martyrdom of the venerated saint, and in general to derive spiritual profit. An interesting description is that of the panegris of St. Thekla of Seleucia in Asia Minor (mid-fifth century), and of St. Demetrios in Thessalonica, Greece (twelfth century). The Church Fathers and the canons of the Church accepted this type of gathering, which still takes place, but they strongly warn against the "commercialization of such festivals" (Speros Vryonis, Jr., "The Panegyris of the Byzantine Saint," The Byzantine Saint, 1981). The Orthodox Church gives a special place to the honor and veneration of the Virgin Mary the Mother of God, the Angels, and St. John the Baptist. Concerning the Virgin Mary, as Mother of God, suffice it to say that the Third Ecumenical Council in Ephesus (431 A.D.) officially adopted the term Theotokos in her honor. There is a period of fasting (the first 14 days of August) and numerous feasts and hymns dedicated to her. Her image is traditionally painted above the Sanctuary and called "more spacious than the heavens" (Platytera). The Virgin Mary, being the mother of God, earnestly intercedes for us, for she gave her flesh to Christ in all humility and obedience, so that the Word of God could become man. ARCHANGEL MICHAEL The Orthodox believe the angels to be incorporeal beings, created by God before the actual creation. They are immortal, not by nature but by the grace of God, and are called "second lights," the first light being God Himself. Their nature was originally changeable, but after the Incarnation of Christ, the angels were considered as saved (sesosmenoi) and, therefore, unaltered. The Fathers believed that every believer has his own "guardian angel"; the angels pray for us, sing, and unceasingly glorify the Holy Trinity. They also serve as examples that people should follow. St. John the Baptist, whose icon is found on the Iconostasis of all Orthodox churches, was the prophet who baptized Christ and prepared His coming on earth; yet he suffered martyrdom for his holiness and obedience to the will of God. The Church has five feasts in honor of St. John the Baptist. CANONIZATION OF SAINTS The Orthodox Church does not follow any official procedure for the "recognition" of saints. Initially the Church accepted as saints those who had suffered martyrdom for Christ. The saints are saints thanks to the grace of God, and they do not need official ecclesiastical recognition. The Christian people, reading their lives and witnessing their performance of miracles, accept and honor them as saints. St. John Chrysostom, persecuted and exiled by the civil and ecclesiastical authorities, was accepted as a saint of the Church by popular acclaim. St. Basil the Great was accepted immediately after his death as a saint of the Church by the people. Recently, in order to avoid abuses, the Ecumenical Patriarchate has issued special encyclical letters (tomoi) in which the Holy Synod "recognizes" or accepts the popular feelings about a saint. Such an example in our days is St. Nicodemos of the Holy Mountain (1955). Since the early Christian period there have been preserved many moving descriptions of the lives and martyrdoms and the miracles of the saints. They were (and still are) called synaxaria (from the Greek word Synaxis, meaning a meeting in the church for liturgical purposes, where the lives of the Saints were read). St. Nicodemos of the Holy Mountain composed synaxaria of the saints during the eighteenth century; and, most recently, Fr. George Poulos and Dr. Constantine Cavarnos have written lives of the saints in English. Изменето од Asya - 11.Јули.2008 во 04:37 |
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zidarski ![]() Сениор ![]() Регистриран: 17.Декември.2007 Статус: Офлајн Поени: 4385 |
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Одлична информација!
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Do what is right, come what may...
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Templarius ![]() Сениор ![]() ![]() Регистриран: 12.Февруари.2008 Локација: Macedonia Статус: Офлајн Поени: 2754 |
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Dosta sarkasticno prasanje i preteruanje - kako i da e asya ti odgvori ubavo koj e procesot...Silata na Svetcite e vo toa sto narodot gi prepoznava gi znae a koj e podobar glas na boga od glasot na narodot... |
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Give me your secrets
Bring me a sign Give me a reason To walk the fire See another dawn Through our son's eyes You give me a reason To walk the fire. |
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AlDra ![]() Сениор ![]() ![]() Регистриран: 06.Јули.2008 Статус: Офлајн Поени: 823 |
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Гласот на народот е глас на Бога????? Има една таква емисија на МТВ треба да се преименува!
Честопати гласот Божји бил спротивен на гласот на народот. Библијата дава многу такви примери. Сети се- па народот викаше да го ослободат Варнава а не Исус! |
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zidarski ![]() Сениор ![]() Регистриран: 17.Декември.2007 Статус: Офлајн Поени: 4385 |
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Templarius - и јас не се согласувам дека гласот на народот е глас на Бога. Но - како и да е - во Православието има јасни правила како се прогласува некој за светец.
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Do what is right, come what may...
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maria_magdalena ![]() Сениор ![]() ![]() trouble seeker Регистриран: 25.Октомври.2007 Статус: Офлајн Поени: 8706 |
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Moшне арогантен начин на реплицирање-несоодветен на твоите како што наведуваш “hristijanski prava i dolzhnosti“кои ги поседуваш.
Не ми е јасно зошто толку лично ја доживеа репликата?
Пред се, со параболата за митникот и фарисејот јас воопшто не алаудирав на нечија набожност, никогаш не би се осудила да го сторам тоа, а најмалку на твојата (не те ни познавам) па незнам зошто толку лично си го сфатил-а тоа, со истата настапив во прилог на тоа зошто Исус ги мразел фарисеите.
Обвинувајќи за фарисејство некој кој не го познаваш-исто така не оди во прилог на правата и должностите на еден вистински христијанин, како ни ГОРДЕЛИВОСТА.
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МИСЛИТЕ СЕ ОСЛОБОДЕНИ ОД ДАНОК.
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Templarius ![]() Сениор ![]() ![]() Регистриран: 12.Февруари.2008 Локација: Macedonia Статус: Офлајн Поени: 2754 |
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Vo red mozebi si vo pravo ![]() No ako Bog na sekoj od nas mu veli kako da ziveeme odnosno mu sugerira i ako site nie ziveeme odnosno se trudime da ziveeme taka togas neli e logicno deka niz nas bog zboruva.....? Kako i da e Silata na Svetcite e golema da se vratam nazad na tema, imeno nenzma nkoj na forumot majkl ili nekoj drug rece deka postoela nekoja prorocica vo germanija koja tie ja smetaat za glasnik na boga nesto kako Hristos - ne mi e jasno kako nekoj moze da poveruva deka nekoja tamu zena e glasnik na boga a da ne veruva vo Svetcite Svetcite za zivotot a i posle smrta pravele cuda lecele i pomagale na narodot a taa sto napravila i ne samo taa mnogu takvi slicni (ne sakam da navredam nikogo)... |
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Give me your secrets
Bring me a sign Give me a reason To walk the fire See another dawn Through our son's eyes You give me a reason To walk the fire. |
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AlDra ![]() Сениор ![]() ![]() Регистриран: 06.Јули.2008 Статус: Офлајн Поени: 823 |
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Да Темплариус во секој од нас има едно тивко гласче кое постојано ни вели што треба да правиме. Некои тоа го нарекуваат совест. Но зар не зависи совеста од домашното воспитување, друштвото, образовно-воспитниот процес и просто речено- сиот тој сложен процес на социјализација на личноста? Некој не може да спие затоа што некого навредил. Друг пак убива човек и ладнокрвно си оди дома и седнува да јаде, потоа си легнува и спие како бебенце.
Да замислиме што му вели совеста на еден исламски фундаменталист со динамит нареден околу неговото тело: ,,Се што треба да направиш е да го запалиш фитилот’’. На тоа овој одговара:,, Да да така е на тоа ме учеа уште од мал. За овој миг се подготвував цел живот. Чекај ме Боже доаѓам!’’. Резултатот? Десетина мртви и уште толку тешко повредени. Совеста е релативен поим. Може да доживее безброј модификации. Но, со верните Христијани тоа не треба да биде така. Божјата Реч и Неговата волја треба да биде локомотивата во нашиот живот. |
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Majkl ![]() Сениор ![]() ![]() Регистриран: 20.Јуни.2008 Статус: Офлајн Поени: 3019 |
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Секој има право во што ќе верува, но би сакал да ми дозволите да дадам една исправка во врска со пророчицата од Германија(ќе се осврнам и кон темата). Габриеле од Вирцбург не вели дека таа е нешто како Христос, напротив таа вели дека Христос единствениот небесен Избавител и Спасител на сите луѓе и души како и Бог Отец и други високи духовни битија се објавуваат повремено преку нејзе, користејќи ја како инструмент - една споредба во слики: како што пијанистот свири на пијаното или како што говорникот зборувајќи во микрофон се слуша неговиот глас преку звучникот - но тоа незначи дека звучникот е говорникот. Бог нам постојано ни зборува на многу начини но за да директно го чуеме и разбереме неговиот глас кој е светлосен треба да ги прочистиме нашите души и подсвеста од човечки представи, сфаќања, омраза, завист, и тн... и го достигнеме 4-иот(од седумте)степени на патот кон Бога, степенот на божествената Сериозност. Бидејќи човештвото оддамна не е во состојба да го чуе Бога кој Говори ниту да ги разбере светлосните импулси, Бог во сите времиња праќал пророци - праведни мажи и жени кои го слушале гласот на вечниот и имале налог да го пренесуваат понатака. Претежно тие биле исмевани(Сведенборг), прогонувани па дури и убивани(на пр.Џордано Бруно, Савонарола итн.)бидејќи тоа што Бог го порачувал и им го порачува на луѓето не било секогаш тоа што тие сакале да го чујат и прифатат. Кон темата СВЕТЦИ, преку нејзе(Габриеле, од Вирцбург) е кажано дека само БОГ може да биде Свет, но постојат блажени битија кои живеат во Бога кои додека биле луѓе му служеле Нему, но тие ги напуштиле своите физички тела(починале) кога дошло време и оттаму не делуваат преку своите телесни останки. Во една прилика се објавил серафимот(според ставот кој го изнесувам: серафимите се женски принципи и се дуали т.е. духовни парови на херувимите кои се машки принципи) на Божественото Милосрдие која беше присутна на земјата како Марија, телесната мајка на Исус. Таа објасни дека својата мисија ја исполнила пред 2000год. и замоли луѓето да не и упатуваат молитви бидејќи она не е Бог ниту пак е ко-регентот на Небесата, Христос кој е задолжен за враќање на сите луѓе и души повторно кај Бога. Вистинските пророци само укажуваат на Христа кој е ПАТОТ, ВИСТИНАТА и ЖИВОТОТ но тоа не ги прави нив светци, па макар група луѓе демократски така да се договори. Изменето од Majkl - 12.Јули.2008 во 18:30 |
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Templarius ![]() Сениор ![]() ![]() Регистриран: 12.Февруари.2008 Локација: Macedonia Статус: Офлајн Поени: 2754 |
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Ne se sl*gam so tvoeto veruvanje no go pocituvam, veruvaj si vo nego i cool.
No te molam aj prestani da gi napadjas Svetcite koi jas gi pocituvam mozebi povece nego li sto ti ja pocituvas taa Gabriele ... nemoj sega da pravime sporedba....Ostavi gi Svetcite na mira veruvaj vo se sto sakas samo mi kazi koga taa Gabriele ce sobere povece od 20 iljadi ludje vo nejziniot dvor da go slavat imeto Hristovo, koga taa gabriele ce naprvi da se izgradi bozja crkva. koga taa gabriele ce socuva barem del od Makedonskata samobitnost, koga taa gabriele ce go sploti Makedonskiot narod vo pravenje na dobri dela...togas pisi ce dikutirame do togas ne mi gi diraj Svetcite na moite pra pra pradedovci i mojata Krsna Slava i mojata pravoslavna hristijanska vera ... tie nisto loso ne ti napravile i nema da ti napravat...nemas nikakvo pravo da gi omlaovazuvas zasto tie so vekovi mu pomagaat na narodot i se so narodot ... zatoa ti se molam nemoj....Ostavi gi Svetcite na mira, kade bea site tie grabrieli i monalizi i sto jazs zanm koi se bre kleopatri i milani kade bea niz vekovite koga na narodot mu bese tesko, ili go ostavija Hristijanstvoto da go iznese tovarot na civilizacijata za da mozat site tie bas poradi toa Hristijanstvo da se pojavat i da plukaat na nego, a ti ce mi kazuvas patot na vistinata zasrami se be, kako ne te e sram od tradicijata kako ne te e sram od pradedovcite koi sigurno vo grob se prevrtuvaat sega koga te slusaat kako ti veruvas vo gabriele pa na kraj veruvaj si kolku sakas ete ti ja i gabriele i kleopatra gratis so nea ama nemoj bre tuka da mi se pravis nekoj i da mi gi diras Svecite (eve ti eden ubav narodski, prostacki, seljacki no ISKREN odgvor) ....moreeeeeeeeeeeeeeee................ Изменето од Templarius - 14.Јули.2008 во 00:08 |
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Give me your secrets
Bring me a sign Give me a reason To walk the fire See another dawn Through our son's eyes You give me a reason To walk the fire. |
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zidarski ![]() Сениор ![]() Регистриран: 17.Декември.2007 Статус: Офлајн Поени: 4385 |
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Опа... станува густо...
![]() Ајде, смирете сите тензии и вратете се на темата... |
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Do what is right, come what may...
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Al_Masih_Qam ![]() Сениор ![]() ![]() Регистриран: 24.Мај.2008 Статус: Офлајн Поени: 113 |
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Габи е фаца! Ово нема ни у Београду ![]() |
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AL MASIH QAM! HAQQAN QAM!
ВОИСТИНУ ВОСКРЕСЕ ХРИСТОС БОГ! |
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fileo ![]() Сениор ![]() ![]() Регистриран: 08.Април.2008 Статус: Офлајн Поени: 165 |
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Бог им дал на светците сила да исцелуваат бидејки тие биле верни и предани со цело срце на Бог. го сакаа Бог со цело срце, беа послушни на Него и живееле според неговите заповеди.
ова може да се рече дека е дефиниција за светец |
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Majkl ![]() Сениор ![]() ![]() Регистриран: 20.Јуни.2008 Статус: Офлајн Поени: 3019 |
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Според оваа дефиниција многу светци од православната и католичката црква(на локално и глобално ниво) би требало тогаш експресно да бидат исфрлени. На пр. Св.Константин и Елена, Св. Сава...итн. |
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