СМЕЕ ЛИ МУСЛИМАН ДА СЕ ОТКАЖЕ ОД ИСЛАМ?

A slucajno jas nekade napisav marija magdalena??? Posto jas kako sto citam ... ne gledam nikade tvoe ime na mojot post Taka da ako toa si go zemas za sebe OK.. ne znam kako si me svatila.. Ali jas Ja zboruvam samo REALNOSTA. Deka sekoj Zboruva za svoeto. (duri nekogas i jas) No sepak treba da se pocituva i ona drugoto.

Jas ne znam zasto mislis deka ne se usoglasuvame... Jas gi pocituvam tvojte stavovi kako TVoj... isto gi pocituvam na SEKOJ od forumov.Ali mojte ne mora da gi pocituvaat Samo ako nekomu ne mu se dopagaat ne mora da komentiraaat negativno. pred se da naglasam oVA ne e Celosno za tebe ... tuku opsto. Sekoj ima pravo na svoj Licen stav Ali ne mora da gi zanemaruva tugite. barem jas taka mislam. NE zboruvam za tebe ... tuku ima mnogu Sto svoeto go cenat KAKO NAJGOLEMA VISTINA i se smeetaat za nesto poveke od drugite. Jas ne vikam ne,i ne sum protiv toa.. Ali barem neka ne gi omalozuvaat drugite I neka go poituvaat i veruvanjeto na drugite kon neso sprotivno OD nivnoto.

mnozinstvoto muslimani se imaat otkazano od islam. samo sto toa ne smeat javno da go kazat, pa ziveat kako kripto-ateisti, t.e. so site pojavi, vrednosti, moralnost itn., kako i ateistite, ama ako gi prasa nekoj - ne, oni se muslimani.

Shaxito напиша: evangelec напиша: mnozinstvoto muslimani se imaat otkazano od islam. samo sto toa ne smeat javno da go kazat, pa ziveat kako kripto-ateisti, t.e. so site pojavi, vrednosti, moralnost itn., kako i ateistite, ama ako gi prasa nekoj - ne, oni se muslimani. Koj ti rekol deka ako nekoj se otkaze od islam deka ne smee toa javno da go kaze??? Ako veke toj se otkazal ... zasto da ne go kaze toa javno??? Zarem misis deka se plasi od lugeto okolu nego?? koga vece vo dusata se otkazal??? .... enavgelec gledam i citam deka na sekoja tema si protiv muslimanite... pa zatoa ke te zamolam da ne bides tolku siguren za toa sto e tvoe mislenje i kako sto vikas ti muslimanite ne kazuvaat javno deka se otkazale od islam ... i ti nemoj da kazuvas tolku javno takvi spored mene negativni mislenja posto mislam deka GRESIS .... ne se site muslimani kako sto vikas ti !!!

Shto se zamarash be saxhito,ostavi neli gledash deka covekov leta i ne e dostoen za repliki?

jas mislam vie ziveete vo nekoj nerealen (virtuelen) svet, pa se pravite naudreni. mnozinstvoto 'muslimani' vo Makedonija ne se vernici, toa li uste ne vi e jasno?

http://patristic.eastern-orthodoxy.com/saydnaya.htm



In December 2004, a rich Moslem Saudi Arab appeared in the media and told the following vivid, soul-stirring event that he lived, and that changed his whole life: (he said this through television, radio, and it was also circulated in newspapers, magazines and leaflets in the whole of Saudi Arabia, Syria, Palestine; evidently in all neighbouring countries too.)

Many years ago he got married to a rich Moslem girl, who was barren. The years passed by, and they could not have children, even though they had a lot of money and they went to many doctors. His parents were telling him to marry also a second woman, and keep the first one, since their law allows them to have up to four women. The Saudi Arab, tired and quite sad, took his wife and went on holidays to our neighbouring from Israel country, Syria, in order for them to relax a little and forget themselves.

In Syria, he hired a limousine with a courier-guide that would drive them around all the worldly sights of Syria. The driver noticed a certain bitterness, pain and sadness on the face of the couple he was showing the sights to. After they got to know each other well, he took the courage to ask them why it was they did not seem pleased; could it be perhaps because of him, and they did not like something in his conducted tour, or perhaps it was something in the sights he showed to them?

They opened up to him and explained to him the problem of their childlessness. This Moslem driver told them then that here in Syria, the Christians, and in fact the Orthodox, have the monastery of Panagia of Saydnaya (which is Arab for Despoina - Lady) and many childless couples resort to her Miraculous icon. There, they receive a little from the wick of the lamp in front of her icon and chew it, then swallow it, and then "Maria" of the Christians, gives to them according to their good intention and faith.

Growing enthusiastic, the Saudi Arab and his wife told him: Take us there, to the Saydnaya, "the Lady of the Christians," and should the desired happen, if we have a child, I will come back and offer you 20,000 dollars, and 80,000 dollars to the monastery. They went thus to the monastery, did what they had to do, and when later on they returned to their country, his wife was found pregnant. In a few months she gave birth to a cute little boy, healthy and very handsome. A miracle of our Panagia.

After his wife gave birth, the Saudi Arab returned immediately to fulfill, to make a reality, the tama he had promised. He called that driver that had shown him around before, in order for him to wait for him at the airport of Damascus. The driver, though, turned out to be cunning and evil, and informed another two of his friends in order for them to go to the airport with him to receive the rich man, and then cunningly kill him and take all the money he would carry on his person. Indeed, that is how it happened. They picked him up at the airport. On the way, the unfortunate man, without knowing what awaited him, told them that because of his joy, he would give 10,000 dollars to each of the driver's friends (on top of the 20,000 dollars he had promised to give to the driver). These however simply changed course and instead of going to the Monastery, went to a secluded area, and butchered him, first cutting off his head and then the rest of his body, hands and feet, in small pieces. Their rage from this criminal activity blinded them, however, and instead of throwing him there and then, put him instead in the boot at the back of the car and started for another secluded spot to throw him there instead.

At some point after they got on the highway, however, the car broke down and they got out to see what had happened, why the engine was not working. A passing driver saw them, and stopped to help them. However, being afraid he might realise the terrible crime they had committed, they pretended they did not need any help. The passing driver though, while he was pulling back on to the road, realised that blood was dripping underneath the lower part of the boot, and when he got a little further down the road, informed the police to go and examine what was going on because these three had seemed suspicious to him.

The police soon got there, and seeing the blood on the road surface ordered them to open the boot immediately. As soon as they opened the boot, the Saudi Arab gets up and comes out, healthy, alive, bleeding of course, but stitched!!! "Just now", he told them, "Panagia did the final stitches, and sutures around my neck, right here ...", at this point he showed the mark in front of his Adam's apple on his neck, "... after having first stitched the rest of my body together".

The criminal driver and his companions lost their reason, went crazy, and after they were cuffed they were led to the psychiatric prisons. On the way, they would shout like possessed "we killed you, we chopped you into pieces, we cut your head off, how do you live?"!!!

The Saudi Arab went for authentication of the incredible miracle. He was seen by forensic surgeons, experts, policemen and they all testified for the authenticity of the miracle by signing ... The stitches were and still are evident. He looked newly-assembled! He would preach and confess at large that "Panagia stitched me, and resurrected me with the power of her Son". Afterwards, the resurrected called on the phone all his family and they came to Syria. They went to the Monastery, thanked the Theotokos and offered entreaties and doxologies, and instead of the amount of 80,000 dollars that the tama was before, they offered to the Monastery the amount of 800,000 dollars for the great benefaction that Panagia had offered him. He continually repeats today this shocking miracle that happened to him and always begins by saying: "When I was a Moslem, the following happened to me ...", confessing that he is not any more a Moslem, neither himself, nor his family ...

The miracle shook the Arab Moslem countries and the whole of the Middle East, and created a stir as it annoyed some very much.

<<The Lord our God lives, the God of the Powers>>

Fr. Ignatius -- Abbot

Holy Monastery of the Shepherds

Bet Sachur -- Bethlehem

>>

We would like to add a few things.

The Saudi Arab was not old but quite young, which is not surprising because they tend to get married at a very young age (16 or 17). Also, his wife had been barren for a period of approximately 10 years before they took this trip in Syria in 2003.

We see how well-meaning he was and how he did not care for the money he had but wanted to share with the others. We also see how much man can become blinded by the passion of money. Former Patriarch Irinaeus was deposed from Jerusalem because sadly he became a lover of money. Judas the Iscariote fell into the same deception and stayed unrepentant until the end, losing his soul. The worst crime in many ways is the love of money. For the flesh fights us, especially when we are young, and we have some excuse when we fall into pornic sins, i.e. of the flesh. But there is no excuse to love dead money, that only lead to a spiritual death. These people lost their reason and ended up in psychiatric prisons in Syria. Was it worth it? But the Devil blinds us. And what is particularly touching is how the Saudi returned the first time to offer his tama, whereas there are many that would not thank the Lord for the "cleansing of their leprosy". The other parts, while shocking to some, are not what we concentrate upon. Elder Paisios talks of a spiritual child of his that with his prayer raised his deceased uncle, because he had been saddenned that his uncle who used to swear and blaspheme, had died unrepentant. And yet, St. Isaac the Syrian reminds us that "the one who cries one hour for his sins, is spiritually higher than the one who can raise the dead with their prayer".

What matters, dear reader, is for us to understand our nothingness, to thank God for all we have, to begin our ascetic struggle in this life, and to taste the beautiful life in Christ within His Body from this life. Paradise begins here and now. Then and only then will we realise that everything is miraculous, one Continuous Miracle that exists in our lives, so that individual events like these will not make the impression that they would make to unbelievers, for to us, all this is normal, as nothing is impossible to God. But these stories are given so we see how much Panagia cares for those who want to come to her, in other words, how much she is like our own mother, how much she loves all people, and does miracles even for Moslems.

And of course, there are thousands of well-established unquestionable miracles all over the Orthodox world, that happen all the time, even though the media often try to silence these.

As we write these notes, the Greek anti-Christian media froth with wrath and a dogmatist hysteria because yet another elder (the late fr. Vilarion of St. Agathon Monastery in Fthiotida, Greece) was taken out of his grave 15 years after his repose, as is customary, and his body has remained incorrupt, whereas he never took any chemical pills during his life, for he was always healthy. Of course, this does not make him a Saint, for this can also be a sign sometimes for the exact opposite; but in his case, it seems he was a holy elder as a multitude of clergy and laity that knew him came forward and spoke in favour of him, and of his secret charismatic presence in their lives while the blessed monk was alive. The matter, as always, will be discussed by the Holy Synod who convenes and decides in the Spirit that guides Her, and her flock, through the ages. The point, however, is that the media hated the fact that (irrespective as to whether this was a sign of his holiness or unholiness) this was a sign that certain pious and serious scientists agreed was inexplicable to science as it goes beyond the scientific laws. There is a particular "straw" the atheists are trying to hold on to, and that is that due to the cold he was mummified. Of course, if that is the case his body will eventually now dissolve. Thus it was decided to have his casket open and to let him be. Time will show. It is a surprising thing to some people who will read these notes, but this action (a very honest one by the monastery) made the atheists froth even more. Satan knows that this man is holy and that this is a miracle. And right at the point when he had prepared the Greek anti-Christian government with the minority of frothing Greek atheists, pseudo-scientists and idolaters who always seem to appear on the television channels, to help ease the new anti-Christian law of cremation, suddenly a miracle that reminds us how the uncreated grace of God can be imbued on to the body of holy men of virtue reminds us also that cremation is a God-despised act.

May these articles be in the memory of St. Anna and her Skete on Athos, where we often go to, and who has protected and helped us greatly during our life. Her Skete on Athos has a miraculous icon of hers holding Virgin Mary as a baby, and incorruptible remains that have stayed incorruptible for the past 2100 years now. Her icon, as many of you know well, is a great comfort to barren women too.

Even Moslem Turks come there and follow what the monastics tell them, and, if they have faith and good intentions, always according to what St. Anna is willing to give of course, through God's mysterious Will (we can only accept the gifts not enforce them through techniques), their wives become pregnant. One doctor we knew of became a fervent Orthodox again after realising that one of his patients who was barren beyond any doubt became pregnant after her husband went to Athos to pray for this at St. Anna's icon. And we have personally witnessed a great number of pious miraculous events and situations in the Holy Garden of Panagia, the Athos, events that we keep silently to ourselves, and simply thank the Mother of Panagia for her help and we wish for her blessings to be bestowed upon all the well-meaning readers of our website, that they may come close to the Orthodox Church where Christ reigns.

We will include additional information from the radio programme at a later stage, when notes are complete.

To be continued.



FOOTNOTES

tama = offering that has been promised when one first asks something from God that is later on granted. This offering can take many forms. Thus, many miraculous icons around the world (this one included) have various little golden watches, small pictures of the babies that were born healthy in a miraculous manner, and so forth around them, to indicate the symbolic offerings of various people, as part of their tama. At other times, people promise to give monetary help to the monastery or provide some other help. Other people provide something simple. Thus, when I was a young boy, my late grandfather, a holy man, had suddenly said one day that I and him will go to Athos together after I return with my bachelor's degree from a country abroad. My parents and other relatives were all mystified, when they heard this, because I was in fact ... one year's old at the time! And yet, the circumstances came such that my grandfather's prophetic words, that came out of his mouth without him knowing why, came true! And, indeed, he went to thank the Panagia with me, on Athos, fulfilling with a mere lampad as a tama a secret desire he had inside him (to see me graduate), through God's blessing who knew what he wanted to ask for, and even happen, before he asked for it! All these are examples of tamata, pious expressions of an offering, often also symbolic, and remind us of the one leper who returned to thank Christ. On some other occasions, pious people with great faith, who have been secretly notified they will be healed by God, apply a tama of their own thoughts there and then, even before they are healed, for their faith is great, and thus so is their trust in Christ. A touching example is a recent story in Cyprus we discussed last year on our Announcement List, when a former paralytic that had been informed in his dream by a Saint that he would be healed when he would go to a certain temple, crawled a large part of the distance, for he could not walk yet. The miracle did happen, but the example of his philotimo greatly warmed their hearts and made them glorify God for His wonders. Glory be to Him! Glory to His name!





Изменето од Asya - 15.Септември.2008 во 13:48

Asya напиша: Shaxito напиша: Abe evangelec MOzes da prekines? Poso jas mozam da bidam kulturna vo izrazuvanjeto ali ... mozam nekogas da upotre*am mnogu mizeren recnik sto uste ednas nema da ti tekne da pises (ne ti zabranuvam da diskutiras ... ) ali smetam deka preteruvas koga se raboti za kritikite na islamot kako vera i za muslimanite. Sto te tebe zanima KOJ kolku veruva??? Mnozinstvo-Malcinstvo!!! Aj malce priberi se i pocni da mislis za sebe ... sto toku si zabral tolku golemo gajle koj kolku veruva! Btw: da se navratime NA temava!!! SMee Li musliman da se otkaze od Islam. A ne KOJ KOLKU VERUVA STO VERUVA!!! Muslimanite vo Makedonija nikogash sushtinski ne go primija islamot, t.e. tie gi primija tradiciite i formata, no ne i sodrzhinata. Za razlika od drugite religii, jazikot na Allah, Muhamed i islamot e arapski, shto znachi deka chovekot prvo treba da go znae arabskiot jazik (za da opshti so Allah) i da gi primi arapskite tradicii, koishto se tesno povrzani so islamskite verski obredi. Povekjeto muslimani na teritorija na Makedonija se potomci na nekogashnite Bogomili (opasna srednovekovna sekta), koishto bile goneti od drzhavata na Vizantija i Crkvata. Zborot "torbeshi" poteknuva od toa vreme, t.e. bogomilite bile asketi (vo nekoi sluchai potpolno se otkazhuvale od hrana i materijalniot svet, izvrshuvajki samoubistvo preku glad), a edinstvena nivna sopstvenost bile torbite vo koi nosele lekoviti bilki i "Tajnata Kniga na Bogomilite". Nekoi Makedonci i drugi balkanski narodi go primile islamot za da bidat oslobodeni od ropstvo, a ne zatoa shto navistina poveruvale vo islamot. Taka, denes vo Makedonija imame Makedonci - "muslimani", koishto ne zboruvaat na arapski jazik i ne znaat nishto sushtestveno za islamskata religija, kako i islamski albanizam (meshavina na albanski nacionalizam so iskrivena forma na islam). Muslimanite mozhat da se otkazhat od islamot i da primat druga vera, a dali smeat, toa zavisi od nivnata volja i zrelost, kako i od fundamentalizmot ili liberalizmot na nivnite roditeli i opshtestva vo koishto se izrasnati i zhiveat.

Zarem jas koga se molam se molam na MAkedonski jazik??? Normalno deka gi znam Na arpaski Ali ne komuniciram CELo vreme Arapski SO muslimanite okolu mene.Dobro vikas toa "TORBESI" poso i jas poteknuvam od toj torbeski kraj... sto gi vikaat torbesi i gi smetaat a duri i oni samite MNOZINSTVOTO se smetaat za torbesi. Torbesi nese radi toa sto nosele torbi so bilki. Tuku torbesi se tije FAmliii sto uste se vbrojuvaat kako muslimani sto Bile Hristijani ... KOga dosle Turcite na Vlast Pojketo od hristijanite ja smenile verata Ili od prisiluvanje (ali mislam deka jas i zivotot bi go dala ali ne menavam vera) taaka da znaci za edna korka leb ili za IMOT ... za da go zacuvaat IMotot oni ja davale kerkata na nekoj PASA ... i taka si ja menavale verata i se narekuvaat Torbesi. OK ali toa sto e interesantno vo sevo ova tobesijava .. sto od togas zaminale poveke od 600 Godini... taka da za Toa vreme neli se smenil Krvta??? Znaci sto i da bile oni veke se MUSLIMANI a ako bile vistinski hristijani .. ako tolku im vredela verata zasto ja smenile??? ... Posle Uste nesto . Ne site Torbesi se TORBESI. HRISTIJANi koj sto ja SMenile verata za nekoja potreba . Za da opstojat vo zivo. KAj nas Torbesite IMame DRVO - DRVO na potomstvoto kaj skoro sekoja familija (jas tvrdam za mojata) toa e drvoto na potomstvoto OD Najstaroto Pleme pa se do denes ... sekoj dedo star covek toa drvo go predava na svojot sin a sinot na svojot sin pa vnuk pa taka nataka... A jas od kaj sto poteknuvam vo familijata Dedomi e OD Libija potekloto e ISLAMSKO uste islamot ne bil zamislen VO mk ... Znaci jas da ne se sekiram Poso IMAM cista krv ISLAMSKA i nesum torbeska. Vera:ISLAM Nacija:MAkedonka - Rodena VO Skopje Nesto nejasno so Muslimanive ? ''torbesive''???