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Зошто Христос? Преобратени во Христијанст

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zidarski Кликни и види ги опциите
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Templarius - ajde i ti nazad na tema!
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..

Изменето од Templarius - 29.Февруари.2008 во 00:45
Give me your secrets
Bring me a sign
Give me a reason
To walk the fire
See another dawn
Through our son's eyes
You give me a reason
To walk the fire.
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DAIJA Кликни и види ги опциите
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Izvini, se vrakjam!!!
О следбеници на Книгата, дојдете да се собереме околу зборот нам и вам заеднички: никого освен Бог да не обожуваме и никого да не Му здружуваме!
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Daija - vrati se na temata te molam... za toa shto ti go pishuvash i ovde ima temi i na podforum politika...
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Abe templarce, se nadevam, kaj i dae, i tebe nekoj da te snimi kako i maftas na kamerata, a potoa da im se pridrizis na kumanovcite i i drugite "pecalbari" koi bespravno okupiraat i vojuvaat za gospodarot na Dzoni, ne svesni deka se samo edna brojka vo verskata vojna, narecena Prodolzenie na krstonosnite vojni!!!
 
 
Tamu sila pokazuvate, a vamu s....e vi ja zedoa pola drzava... Pa do koga be vaka kje se brukate u svet??????????!!!лутина
О следбеници на Книгата, дојдете да се собереме околу зборот нам и вам заеднички: никого освен Бог да не обожуваме и никого да не Му здружуваме!
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Originally posted by khaleefah khaleefah напиша:

Prvo spored naslovot na samata tema moze jasno da se vidi deka nahristijanite definitivno im fali kreativnost,pa avtorot do toj stepen e nekreativen sto i poinakov naslov nemozel da smisli ali nema veze...Bev vo nekolku arapski zemji kade ima pomali ili pogolemi hristijanski grupi i imase nekoi luge sto prifakaa hristijanstvo no samo radi 2glavni pricini: Ili radi Green Card za  prestoj vo Amerika ili radi ubava zena.Eve dosega kako sto vidovme site tekstovi bea na angliski jazik,i skorosite momentalno ziveat vo Amerika ili druga zapadna zemja,i za  da go zarabotat "lebot" mora da kazuvaat raboti protiv Islam.Mnogu od niv imaat napisano i anti-islamski knigi, i pricinite koi gi naveduvaat za preminuvanjeto vo hristijanstvo se poveke od smesni.Porano niz istorijata se zabelezani vakvi slucai no bidejki muslimanskitezemji bea daleku ponapredni togas glavnata pricina poradi koja nekojmusliman se otkazuval od svojata vera bila ubava zena.Ona sto sekogas ke go stava Hristijanstvoto daleku nazad zad Islamot e katastrofalnoto veruvanje,paganskite elementi vonego i pogresniot koncept za Boga.



Pa ne e bas taka kako ti sto velis:

mi, pravoslavni, verujemo u moć te Svete Tajne. Ja sam video kako se ponašaju muslimani koji počinju da veruju u Gospoda Isusa Hrista, i sa kakvim poštovanjem prihvataju Tajnu Krštenja.
Sećam se kako je u Džalal-Abadu bila jedna porodica koja je primila hrišćanstvo. Bilo u toj porodici petoro braće. Jednom je cela grupa ljudi, muskimana, njih oko hiljadu, došla ispred kuće te porodice i tražila da se odreknu hrišćanstva ili će ih pobiti. Ali, oni se nisu odrekli. Milicija je jedva spasila tu porodicu sklonivši ih na bezbedno mesto. Kada musliman primi hrišćanstvo on mora da živi sa svesnošću da sebe prinosi kao žrtvu. Kada sam ja primio pravoslavlje, morao sam da platim visoku cenu. Moj porodični život se iskomplikovao, odnos sa prijateljima, problem sa egzistencijom, misionarskim radom. Ali, šta da radiš? Prava Istina je Istina, ti je možeš odbiti ili prihvatiti, ali da je izmeniš, ne možeš!
Give me your secrets
Bring me a sign
Give me a reason
To walk the fire
See another dawn
Through our son's eyes
You give me a reason
To walk the fire.
Кон врв
Messenger Кликни и види ги опциите
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Vo ovoj svet, no ne od ovoj svet

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khaleefah, za toa sto go pravish sekogash si go imal mojot respekt i toa mnogu dobro go znaesh. So tebe imam diskutirano raboti za koi site drugi lugje od site religii sakale sto pobrzo da izbegnat. Zatoa si se zdobil so mojot respekt i toa sekogash javno ke go kazhuvam.

Onoa sto me iznenadi e nachinot na koj se izrazi za TUGJA religija. Za SVOJATA mozham da razberam vernik da si dade sloboda da upotrebi zborovi i frazi koi mozhebi ne se najprifatlivi, no vo respekt na samokritichnost, sekoj bi gi podzatvoril ochite i bi ochekuval nekakvo prechistuvanje preku niv.

No bilo koj da si dade sloboda da gazi TUIGJA vera samo zatoa sto ne e negova i sto ne veruva vo nea e neshto NEPRIFATLIVO, bez obir dali toa e napraveno iskreno ili ne. Mozhesh da kazhesh deka ne se slozhuvash so nekoi tugji veruvanja i ako si zaprashan toa da go elaborirash na nachin koj ne e navredliv, no da skoknesh i da izjavish deka samo tvojata vera e onaa tochnata i dobrata i drugite se katastrofalni poradi pogreshen koncept za Boga i poradi nekoi religiski elementi koi tebe ne ti se bliski e nedozvoleno megju lugje so razlichni verski ubeduvanja.

Ne mozhe nikoj da se stavi vo uloga na vrhoven sudija, da se stavi vo uloga na Bog samo zatoa sto VERUVA deka Bog stoi lichno zad nego. Ne zaboravaj deka sekoj vernik go chuvstvuva istoto stom e pripadnik na nekoja religija, pa ne si dozvoluva da skoka na toj nachin i da gi obezvreduva ostanatite.

Ova treba da e razbereno od SITE chlenovi na forumov.

Изменето од Messenger - 28.Февруари.2008 во 16:47
Truth needs no laws to support it. Throughout history only lies and liars have resorted to the courts to enforce adherence to dogma.
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Originally posted by khaleefah khaleefah напиша:

Jas se cudam od vas sto me opomenuvate voopsto.Pa uste i suspenzija.


Za da nema zabuna, za ova beshe opomenata:
"Ona sto sekogas ke go stava Hristijanstvoto daleku nazad zad Islamot
e katastrofalnoto veruvanje,paganskite elementi vonego i pogresniot
koncept za Boga
."

Toa mozhe da e tvoja "vistina" - no e premnogu navredlivo, imame dovolno objasnuvano na forumov zoshto i kako.
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"The Khilafah is Coming..."

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Jas se cudam od vas sto me opomenuvate voopsto.Pa uste i suspenzija.
Se izvinuvam messenger jas sum mnogu iskrena licnost.Znam deka mojata iskrenost gi povreduva krevkite dusi,i tie koi ne se sigurni vo ona sto go veruvaat.

Kolku pati samo sum vlegol vo konflikt so muslimani koga sum im dokazuval deka iako poveketo vleguvaat vo islam od ubeduvanje ima i
mnogu takvi sto toa go pravat od moda i za toa imam fakti.
Za hristijanstvoto eve pak tvrdam deka site go primaat radi nekakov ovozemski interes.

Vistinata e taa i treba da se prifati.Koga se  raboti za vistinata jas sekogas ja kazuvam bez razlika kolku e gorka.Toa vo mnogu situacii od
zivotot mi naneslo mnogu problemi bidejki ponekogas mojata zelba da
se iznese vistinata na videlo sum povredil duri i luge koi mi bile mnogu bliski,ali nikogas tuka ne selektiram megu musliman ili nemusliman,masko ili zensko,bolen ili zdrav,nego ona sto go smetam za pravilno go kazuvam pa neka bide protiv bilo kogo.





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khaleefah, osobeno te cenam kako muslimanski chlen i sogovornik, pa zatoa smetam deka opomenata od zidarski za sega e dovolna. Navistina sum iznenaden bidejki ne sum videl vo minatoto takov komentar od tebe, inaku ke beshe suspendiran.
Truth needs no laws to support it. Throughout history only lies and liars have resorted to the courts to enforce adherence to dogma.
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Khaleefah - stvarno mi e smacheno da izigruvam policaec, od sabajle se zanimavam so opomeni...
Koga ti iznesuvash prichini zaradi koi hristijani preminale vo islam, nikoj ne pishuva navredi za islamot! Soodvetno, koga nekoj kje pishe za nekoj shto preminal vo hristijanstvo, imaj dostoinstvo barem, ako vekje nemash pochit i imaj vozdrzhan komentar, bez da kazhuvash deka hristijanstvoto ima paganski elementi i pogreshen koncept za Boga...
Shto e celta na vakva diskusija?! Da pokazhesh kolku ste vie ispravni preku pokazhuvanje deka nie ne sme?! Ako mi pokazhesh deka hristijanstvoto ne e ispravno, ne si me ubedil deka islamot e. Ushte povekje, so nachinot na koj nastapuvash, ushte povekje me ubeduvash deka ne e, zatoa shto ne mozham da prifatam vera koja nema pochit kon drugite, pred se!
I stavot vash deka site ostanati se prodavaat samo za pari ili zheni - toa povekje zvuchi kako propaganda, otkolku obratno. Poznavam lichno lugje koi se pokrstile - i ne go napravile niti za pari, niti za zheni - duri poznavam eden koj se zamonashi (kako shto znaesh - nema ni pari ni zheni vo taa rabota).
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Prvo spored naslovot na samata tema moze jasno da se vidi deka na
hristijanite definitivno im fali kreativnost,pa avtorot do toj stepen
e nekreativen sto i poinakov naslov nemozel da smisli ali nema veze...

Bev vo nekolku arapski zemji kade ima pomali ili pogolemi hristijanski
grupi i imase nekoi luge sto prifakaa hristijanstvo no samo radi 2
glavni pricini: Ili radi Green Card za  prestoj vo Amerika ili radi ubava zena.

Eve dosega kako sto vidovme site tekstovi bea na angliski jazik,i skoro
site momentalno ziveat vo Amerika ili druga zapadna zemja,i za  da go zarabotat "lebot" mora da kazuvaat raboti protiv Islam.

Mnogu od niv imaat napisano i anti-islamski knigi, i pricinite koi gi
naveduvaat za preminuvanjeto vo hristijanstvo se poveke od smesni.

Porano niz istorijata se zabelezani vakvi slucai no bidejki muslimanskite
zemji bea daleku ponapredni togas glavnata pricina poradi koja nekoj
musliman se otkazuval od svojata vera bila ubava zena.

Ona sto sekogas ke go stava Hristijanstvoto daleku nazad zad Islamot
e katastrofalnoto veruvanje,paganskite elementi vonego i pogresniot
koncept za Boga.

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УЖАС!!!

Изменето од tofu - 28.Февруари.2008 во 14:59
It’s just unbelievable how many people think their version of reality is the only one that exists.
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A Muslim Looks at
Muhammad and Jesus

The story of Abdul Saleeb and what he
discovered about Islam and Christianity

christianity%20and%20islam

islam%20and%20christianity

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My name is "Abdul Saleeb." I was born and raised in a Muslim country in the Middle East. Even though I lived in a very conservative Muslim society, I grew up in a somewhat of a liberal Muslim family. Furthermore, my Muslim upbringing was unique due to my mother's serious involvement in Islamic sufism. So I can honestly confess that I have had first-hand experience of every aspect of contemporary Islamic movements. I personally did not consider myself very religious. At one point I even turned to Marxist ideologies thinking that they could provide real solutions to my country's social ills. However, throughout all this time I never doubted the fundamentals of my religious faith. I thought of Islam as a faith with such high ideals that I did not consider myself worthy of the name Muslim but I wholeheartedly believed that Islam was God's last and most perfect religion for all mankind, based on God's final revelation, the Qur'an, and the prophet Muhammad, God's seal of prophethood. My view of other religions (especially Judaism and Christianity) was that although they were fundamentally the same since they had all been revealed by one God, they were all inferior to Islam because all of them had to various degrees corrupted the original message of their founding prophets, something that we as Muslims have not done.

My religious views were radically challenged when I left my country because of its civil turmoil and went to Europe for the continuation of my studies. By the providence of God and because of various circumstances, I ended up enrolling in an International Christian School.

A question I once asked my teacher revolutionized my worldview. I asked, "How come your word of God says one thing and our word of God says something different?" My teacher, not knowing much about Islam at all, gently asked, "How do you know the Qur'an is the word of God?" I was taken aback by that response. I had lived in a world in which everyone simply presupposed that the Qur'an was dictated word for word by God to the Prophet Muhammad and no one ever questioned that assumption. That brief encounter forced me to start on a journey, engage my Christian friends in hours of cordial discussion and debate about the truthfulness of the Christian faith.

Christianity and Islam

Like almost any other Muslim, my original reaction to the claims of Christians about Jesus Christ was that of utter shock. These claims not only seemed like plain blasphemy but also quite nonsensical. How could any rational being believe such things about an honored prophet of God? Despite my fundamental theological differences with my friends, there was something about their life and faith that impressed me a great deal. There was a sincerity in their relationship with God and with other people that I had not encountered. So I would often tell them that I did not want to deny their faith but I just wanted to find a compromise so that I could hold to the truth of Islam and they could continue to hold to their faith.

However, I was in no doubt that their belief about Jesus was based on statements that the prophet Jesus had never actually claimed for himself. My difficulty in understanding Christian belief was very much along the lines that have historically separated Islam from Christianity.

I did not grant in any way that the Bible, especially the New Testament documents, were reliable when it came to reporting the words of Christ. Anything in the Bible that disagreed with the Qur'an was automatically rejected as being a corrupt teaching in the Bible.

My spiritual journey went on for months. Oftentimes I did find comfort in the Qur'an, but I was encountering more questions in that book than answers. For example, the violent tone of many of the Qur'anic passages (especially against the unbelievers but also against the Jewish and Christian people) began to bother me, when compared with the emphasis on love in the New Testament. One particular passage that troubled me, especially in light of my good friendship with many Christians, was in Sura 5:51.

"O ye who believe! Take not Jews and Christians for your friends and protectors; they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."

However, the most troubling section of the Qur'an had to do with the character of the prophet Muhammad himself. According to Sura 33:37, God sanctions Muhammad's desire to marry the divorced wife of his own stepson, "in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And God's command must be fulfilled."

I vivdly remember the first time that I came across that verse in my study of the Qur'an. I began to sob with great sorrow and shame. All my life I had been told that Muhammad was the most perfect and ideal moral example for mankind and yet the Qur'an had a good number of examples of how the "revelations" could be so self-serving to the prophet himself!

Christianity or Islam

I immediately wrote a letter to my mother back home with some of these troubling questions that I was encountering. The response that I received to my letter from one of the most prominent religious leaders in my country was that I should just continue my secular studies and not focus too much on religion. On the other hand, as my understanding of the Bible was increasing many of my questions were beginning to get answered. Even as a Muslim I came to believe that the crucifixion of Christ was an undisputable historical fact that no honest person that deals with evidences of history could deny.

The character of Christ himself, as manifested for example in his beautiful Sermon on the Mount, was gradually making a great impression on me. But for me the most impressive factor about Christ was the multitude of Old Testament prophecies about the coming of the Messiah. Some of these prophecies were so specific and they were fulfilled in the life of Jesus to such a detail that it amazed me to see how God had taken hundreds of years of Jewish history to prepare the coming of the Messiah; prophecies ranging from Messiah's ancestery, his manner and place of birth, his life and ministry to the circumstances surrounding his death by crucifixion. I was very attracted to Christ and yet I could not deny my own tradition and past. Becoming Christian seemed a definite betrayal of my own family and Islamic heritage. The tension in my life was so strong that I felt torn asunder between these two faiths.

But I still could not bring myself to accept that Jesus was anything more than a human being. Since he had never explicitly said, "I am God and you must worship me," the Christian claim about Jesus was based on speculation and historically unreliable Gospels. Surely the incredible statements attributed to Jesus were invented by later Christians and put in the mouth of Jesus.

A Muslim Converts

In the midst of all this anxiety of thought, I woke up one morning and was suddenly struck by the meaning of a verse written by the prophet Isaiah in his ninth chapter. I had read this verse several weeks prior to that morning, but I had never understood its meaning. In Isaiah 7:14 we read,

"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."

Isaiah then goes on to write in chapter 9,

"[...] in the future he (God) will honor Galilee of the Gentiles, by the way of the sea, along the Jordan the people walking in darkness have seen a great light, on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned [...] For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne [...] from that time on and forever."

I could not believe it! The fact that the Messiah was not going to be just a prophet but Mighty God himself, was therefore a truth that had been prophesied seven hundred years before Christ in the Old Testament, and not something that had been made up by Christians many years or centuries after Christ! It was God's own promise that he will come in flesh (Immanuel = God with us) and will establish a kingdom that will last forever.

I came to trust in Christ, the next day on January 20, 1985. I cried uncontrollably as I was praying and turning to Christ in faith. I did not know why, and though I had never felt much burden of guilt, I was feeling a great sense of peace and relief from the burden of my sins. A greater satisfaction was the sense of rest in finally finding the truth about God and His revelation of love to mankind in Jesus Christ. A book that helped me (and several other Muslim friends of mine who became Christians around the same time that I did) tremendously in answering many of my questions about the deity of Christ and the reliability of the New Testament documents was Josh McDowell's "Evidence That Demands A Verdict." I highly recommend it.

Soon after my own conversion, I decided to dedicate my entire life to promoting the Good News of Christ among Muslims and especially the people of my own country. I later came to the United States and received my undergraduate and graduate degrees in Biblical and Theological Studies. I also co-authored a book called Answering Islam: The Crescent in the Light of the Cross.

Abdul Saleeb, Ramadan of 1996

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