Mythology of Venets

Dr. Jozko Savli

Nikolaj Mihajlov, the Russian professor, who teaches at the University of Udine (Friuli, Italy), also introduced the question of Slovenian mythology in his interview for Ljubljana's Daily Newspaper 'Delo' (30.5.01), where he stated: "it is very rich".  However, this "richness" he does not specify in any way, but he quotes the following:
"I think that the Slovenian mythological tradition retained some very archaic lines on the basis of which we can also reconstruct some fragments of the common Slav mythology.  Nowadays the main concern in mythological explorations is in the reconstruction of what originated before the Slavic people were Christianized.  Some people are looking at the scientific reconstruction of the Slovenian mythology with great skepticism just because they have such a vast number of unbelievable mythological and also ethno-genealogical, but of course, imaginative theories.  I would rather not talk about Venets . . ."

That he would rather not talk about Venets, is understandable for someone who is teaching at a university that is financed by Rome.  Because of the financial structures in Italy, all the branches of humanity studies are tuned only to the ancient Romans, Latins and Italians, and represent, even if unofficially, the ideology of the state.  Professor Mihajlov is obviously not game to confront this ideology with the discoveries of Venets.  In this way he skips over to the supposed 'Old Slavs', that he does not name directly, for this would be too banal.  He only points to the existence of an 'all-Slav' Pantheon.  This one in fact does not exist and it never existed.  However, for Slovenians, Pan-Slavism also builds its propaganda about our ancestors, 'the Ancient Slavs' in this imaginary pantheon, which is merely an ideological and academic edifice.  Next the people were emotionally fired up, especially by author Franc Finzgar with his passionate novel, "Pod svobodnim soncem" (Under the Free Sun), that was intended for the wider public and ordinary intellectuals.  That is generally how the misconception entered the Slovenian mind.  It also influenced greatly, probably even decisively, the interests of Slovenian semi-intellectuals towards the great Slavic Russia, from where they later also accepted communism, under the brotherly coat of grand pan-Slavism.

The consequences of this Pan-Slavic romanticism is such that in our schools today still, a false 'Slavic' pantheon, that has the Russian deity at its stern, is taught:  Perun, Dazbog, Svarog, Veles, naturally Morana and others.  All these presumed 'common' deities that were wrenched away from Carantanians (Slovenians) "with fire and sword" by the German missionaries, are still today one of the fundamental components of the regime's (government's) ideology based on old liberalism, anti-Christianity, Pan-Slavism and Yugo-Slavism.  Even though there is not the faintest trace of them with Slovenians, and they cannot be juggled, even scientifically.  But, with Slovenians it is just the opposite.  We find traces of ancient Venetic deities, and professor Mihajlov is obviously aware of them.

The truth is that Belin, god of light and sun remained in the Slovenian memory up to the present.  Quite understandably we do not find their catchwords in the Slovenian encyclopedia that is still written in the frame of the Yugoslav and Pan-Slavic ideology.  However, the first Slovenian opera (1780) that is now lost, was already named 'Belin'.  He was also the principal deity of ancient Noricum.  Alongside him, as the mother of the land, was the deity Norea.  The god of war in Noricum was Latobi.  Roman sources also contain reports about these deities.  Although, Triglav, god of the universe, is not mentioned in them, yet, archeological excavations also contain this evidence.  Linhard specifically mentions him in his history (1791).  Kresnik, who shows certain parallels with the Indian Krishna (similarly with some other deities:  Agni, Yama, Vishnu), and with it the ancient Venetic base has not yet been scientifically examined.

Belin (Belenus) was the protector of ancient Aquileia, even during the Roman period.  The fact that he remained in Slovenian memory could be partly explained by the fact that he was, in the early Christian period, in at least some of the regions, likened to Christ, obviously in the image of 'The Sun, the Redeemer' (Sol Salutis).  In the vicinity of Galjan near Cedad, a little church has been preserved until now, that is consecrated to St. Belin.

In Macedonian scriptures a story about Fetonte has been preserved, obviously Venetic, even though he is presented as the son of Zeus.  Zeus has thrown him into an amber river because in his sunny yoke (sun's carriage??), he came too close to the earth and could have burned it.  The sisters buried him and mourned him, and their tears turned into the River Jantar.  The River Eridan is presumed to be the present River Po, yet it is more likely that it was the River Isonzo (Soca, Slovenia) because the path of River Jantar finishes at its mouth there, near Aquileia.

These are only some of the concrete facts that were suppressed in the above-mentioned interview.  It is quite possible that the Yugoslav-oriented newspaper 'Delo', even though it is constantly endeavoring to be printed on 'democratic paper', would not have even published the interview with the Russian professor if he had actually spoken of the ancient Slovenian and naturally the Venetic pantheon.  This was certainly necessary, so that it would not influence the awakening of consciousness, of obviously veiled Slovenian lambs.  Such an intention naturally does not reflect science, but only the totally clear Pan-Slavic ideology that cannot be accepted by everyone uncritically.

http://www.angelfire.com/country/veneti/SkuljRootsGenes.html - http://www.angelfire.com/country/veneti/SkuljRootsGenes.html

http://my.opera.com/ancientmacedonia/blog/2006/12/20/classification-of-the-european-language -

Izgleda deka i segasnive arheolozi i istoricari se podlozni na odlukata sto bi trebalo da ja donesat "golemite sili" za da odlucat na kogo BI JA PREPISALE TAA "NAJSTAR NAROD" titula pri pisuvanjeto na "novata istorija" za postoenjeto na Evropskiot narod.

Eve veke poveke kandidati se pojavuvaat - megu drugoto i Slovenija (od predhodniot prilog ispraten) kako NAJNOV kandidat za najstarata titula????

Nas Makedoncite PAK kako da ne zaboravaat i zapostavuvaat vo taa "konk*rencija" - NAMERNO i PRESMETANO se razbira.

Od koga pak sega Slovenija ispadna "najstarata nacija na Balkanot" - KOGA SITE BORBI SE VODEA VO I ZA MAKEDONIJA??????

Zarem i nasite "najgolemi prijateli" i podrzuvaci vo EU integracijata NI GO KOPAAT GROBOT?????

Zosto i kako ispadna "ROSETA KAMENOT" da bide vo racete na Slovenija - na cuvanje, mozda?????? (procitav vo nekoja statija od Makedonski vesnik).

ZAREM I TIE NA "PRIJATELSKI" NACIN KE NI GO FARBAAT MOZOKOT?????

Se skapaa od kopanje niz celata geografska teritorija na Makedonija so rasnorazni pronajdoci - STO NI OSTAVIJA NAS??????

Edna maska i pet keramicki posadi!!!!!

KADE ODAT SITE TIE PRONAJDOCI - I ZOSTO NIE MAKEDONCITE NE ZNAEME I NEMAME NISTO OD TOA????

SLOVENITE LI, BUGARITE ILI GRCITE ZIVEELE NA OVIE PROSTORI????

Mnogu se sum nervozen sega za da mozam da ja pobaram web-stranata kade sto pisuva za pronajdocite na Makedonskite prostori - no se razbira gi prepisuvaat kako "grcki", vo koi se veli DEKA NA OVIE PROSTORI E NASTANATA-POTEKNUVA  BELATA RASA, dodeka crnata i drugi od Afrika.

Drug pat ke ja prilozam i taa strana.

Sega eve nekoi podatoci koi go potvrduvaat MAKEDONSKOTO postoenje kako najstara nacija na ovie prostori i poigruvanjata so istorijata na nasiot narod vo 19ti vek:

Macedonians

Our results show that Macedonians are related to other Mediterraneans

and do not show a close relationship with Greeks; however

they do with Cretans (Tables 3, 4, Figs 1–3). This supports the

theory that Macedonians are one of the most ancient peoples

existing in the Balkan peninsula, probably long before arrival of the

Mycaenian Greeks (10) about 2000 B.C. Other possible explanation

is that they might have shared a genetic background with the

Greeks before an hypothetical admixture between Greeks and sub-

Saharans might have occurred. The cultural, historical and genetic

identity of Macedonians is established according to our results.

However, 19th century historians focused all the culture in Greece

Tissue Antigens 2001: 57: 118–127 125

ignoring all the other Mediterranean cultures present in the area

long before the classical Greek one (25).

Za celosen report odete na stranata:

http://www.makedonika.org/processpaid.aspcontentid=ti.2001.pdf - http://www.makedonika.org/processpaid.aspcontentid=ti.2001.pdf

* Isto na ovaa strana ima interesni podatoci (moze ja znaete), najveke okolu sporot so grcija okolu imeto, bugaria i sl.

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ - http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/

Eve edna mnogu realna sodrzina za Makedoncite i nivnoto poteklo. 

"Slavs are indigenous in the Balkans"

http://web.archive.org/web/20040219231617/www.racearchives.com/archived/viewnews.asp?newsID=988659083843 - http://web.archive.org/web/20040219231617/www.racearchives.com/archived/viewnews.asp?newsID=988659083843

Eve edna nova Germanska strana sto pisuva za Makedonija od A - SH!!!!

МЕГАЛИТСКАТА ОПСЕРВАТОРИЈА ГО "ДОКАЖА" НАЈСТАРИОТ КАЛЕНДАР

Friday, 10. August 2007, 13:14:48

ЈЕГУНОВЦЕ ГРАДИШТЕ

Friday, 10. August 2007, 12:52:38

Стенче-Stence

Friday, 10. August 2007, 12:46:43

Осум милениуми лежат под Стенче

ЛОКАЛИТЕТОТ ВО ПОДНОЖЈЕТО НА СУВА ГОРА

На источната периферија на селото Стенче, во подножјето на Сува Гора, се наоѓа ридот Градиште, на надморска височина од 730 метри.
На врвот од ридот се наоѓа зарамнето плато, кое е опкружено со јаки кули и бедеми, градени од камен во малтерна техника.
Ископите во археолошкото наоѓалиште Стенче почнаа во 1973 година, а последната фаза заврши летово и, како што велат археолозите, само потврди дека под земјените пластови во Стенче се кријат уште многу наоди и археолошки непознаници.
Магистер Драгиша Здравковски од Музејот на Македонија работи на својата докторска дисертација за настанокот на т.н. "Анзабеголо - вршничка културна група" кај Скопско, која непосредно влијаела врз живеењето на луѓето кај Стенче во неолитот. "Најстариот хоризонт на неолитската населба Тумба Стенче, која се наоѓа западно под селото, на десната страна на реката Вардар, со карактеристичните белосликани керамички форми на садови, датира од 6100-тата година пред нашата ера", истакнува Здравковски.

ZA CELOSNI REPORTI POVEKE LOKACII I RAZLICNI SODRZINI NA OVAA TEMA POSETETE JA:

http://my.opera.com/ancientmacedonia/blog/

Нашето име гордо го носиме најмалку 7.000 години.

Ако тргнеме од најстарите податоци каде се споменува името Македонија и за нас како Македонци, тогаш треба да ја имаме предвид глинената плочка од Градешница на која децидно стои името на зетот Пир Македонски која се проценува дека датира од 5.000 години пред нашата ера.
Македонија спаѓа меѓу најбогатите археолошки наоѓалишта на Балканскиот Полуостров и без нејзините артефакти не може да се комплетира историјата на Европа и на светот.
Нејзините културни слоеви се богати со остатоци од материјална култура која датира почнувајќи некаде од крајот на мезолитот и почетокот на неолитот т.е. од 7.000 до 6.000 година пред нашата ера, па до денес.
iskazuvanje na g-din Vasil Iljov
< pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashp" ="http://my.opera.com/ancientmacedonianss/homes/s/pir_makedonski_vlez.swf" ="application/x-shockwave-flash" height="260" width="372">

http://www.marxists.de/balkans/garganas/mazedonien.htm -

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Moralia/Fortuna_Alexandri*/2.html - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Moralia/Fortuna_Alexandri*/2.html

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Lives/Alexander*/3.html#2 - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Lives/Alexander*/3.html#2

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=On+the+Fortune+or+Virtue+of+Alexander+Plutarch&btnG=Search - http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=On+the+Fortune+or+Virtue+of+Alexander+Plutarch&btnG=Search

The ancient Macedonians and their language

In Greece today people start from an a priori assumption of the "Greek identity of Macedonia as an obvious historical fact". Identifying the Greeks from the ethnic and linguistic point of view with the ancient Macedonians, the current Greek regime accuses "Skopje" of encroaching upon the name Macedonia and on a part of a cultural heritage which belongs only to the Greeks. In fact this is nothing more than their conviction which for years now has been handed out to young people in Greek schools from their earliest years and, most recently, has been propagated throughout the entire world. The thesis of the "Greek identity of Macedonia" is not scientifically supportable.

We shall concentrate here on the earliest period.

In Greek scholarship, in numerous articles and books, the historical facts which go against the thesis of a "Greek Macedonia" are passed over. It is universally known that the classical Greek authors did not recognize the Macedonians as their fellow-countrymen, calling them barbarians, and they considered Macedonian domination in Greece as an alien rule, imported from outside by the members of other tribes, the, as Plutarch says, allophyloi. This historical right and this "Greek identity of Macedonia" have for a long time been "proved" with the hypothesis that the ancient Macedonians were a Doric tribe and their language a Doric dialect. Since this could not be supported by definite facts from historical sources, and even less by archaeological or linguistic proofs, not long ago official Greek scholarship discarded this hypothesis. After the deciphering of Linear B in 1952, and more particularly after 1970. when the luxurious edition of The History of the Greek Ethnos' was published, Greek linguists and historians went far into the past to seek for foundations for their thesis of a "Greek Macedonia". Although none of the Mycenaean scholars in the world takes seriously their hypothetical interpretations of Mycenaean texts, they nevertheless wish to discover in them "proofs" that the ancient Macedonians were Indo-Europeans, Proto-Hellenes, and that their language was the oldest, purest and most conservative Greek dialect which at the same time cast a new light on the oldest history of the Greek ethnos. This thesis reached its culmination at the beginning of the 1980's when an unusual jubilee under the title of "4,000 Years of Greek Macedonia" was celebrated with great pomp. The theory thus constructed has pretensions to scholarship but in fact starts out from pre-suppositions which are not supported by a single historical fact.

The history of the ancient Macedonians over a lengthy period of 1,600 years (2,200-600 B.C.) has been reconstructed on the basis of a prejudgement that they could have been nothing other than Greeks. It should be noted that no text whatsoever has been preserved in the ancient Macedonian language. Only about a hundred glosses are known, from which it is not possible to reconstruct the language. For more than 150 years these words have been a subject of comparative linguistic studies, but quite a large number of these remain with only a hypothetical explanation or even with no explanation at all. While earlier on Doric forms were being sought in the Macedonian glosses, Greek linguists are now investing great efforts in revealing archaic Aeolian. Arcado-Cypriot and Mycenaean parallels. In fact the sparse linguistic material is extremely complex and heterogeneous. It is clear that among the glosses there are borrowings from Greek which in antique times was a language of great prestige; the Greek words, however, have been adapted according to a different, non-Greek phonetic system, [e.g.: Macedonian ade "sky", Greek aither "air"; Mac. danos, Gk. thanatos "death"; Mac. keb(a)]le Gk. kephale "head", etc.] But at the same time there are among the glosses such words as are not found in Greek but have parallels in other Indo-European languages, [e.g.: aliza "a white layer under the bark of a tree", Slavonic e/oa xa; Mac. goda "innards", Gk. entera, Old Indian Sanskrit gudam "intestine"; Mac. pella "stone", Germ. Fels < + pel-sa, etc.] As proof of the cognation of the ancient Macedonians with the Greeks a photograph has been presented of the inscription from Vergina with Greek names. It should be mentioned that the majority of the names of Macedonians from the ancient period are those of members of the ruling dynasty or the aristocracy who consciously identified with the sphere of Hellenic culture so that it is in no way strange that the names of the majority of them are Greek. But alongside them are to be found Macedonian names which cannot be explained by means of Greek etymology.

With regard to their religion which, it is maintained, was the same as that of the Greeks, it should be borne in mind that the names of the divinities were translated into Greek in accordance with their functions, just as the names of the Greek divinities were altered by Roman authors writing in Latin: Jupiter in place of Zeus,-Minerva for Athena, Venus for Aphrodite, etc. From an analysis of the ancient Macedonian glosses it can be concluded that ancient Macedonian was an Indo-European language distinct from Greek. The well-known French Indo-European scholar A. Meje says that Greek is no closer to ancient Macedonian than is any other Indo-European language. In his classification of the Indo-European languages, J. Pokorny with complete justification puts Macedonian together with Phrygian in his Indo-European etymological dictionary. In support of the thesis that the ancient Macedonians were Greeks it is stressed that Philip 11 and Alexander the Great not only behaved as Greeks but were incarnations of the idea of a united Greek state. The state which was ruled by Philip 11 and Alexander the Great, who subdued the Greek city-states and extended their frontiers to Central Asia, is nowhere called a Greek state. Educated by the great Greek philosopher Aristotle, Alexander highly valued classical Greek education and spread it to Central Asia. He abandoned, moreover, the dogma of the "difference" between Greeks and barbarians. He introduced into his policy a new spirit of the equality of all peoples, a spirit alien even to his teacher, who had prepared him for leadership of the Greeks and mastery of the barbarians. In accordance with his cosmopolitan ideology, Alexander showed an extraordinary broadmindedness both towards the Greeks and towards the other Balkan and Asiatic peoples. With this approach he laid the foundations of Hellenism too, which was a mixture of Greek philosophic and educational ideas with the cultural and religious understandings of the peoples of the east. Alexander spread Hellenism in the Greek language, which he considered to be the language of culture, but his mother tongue was not understood by the Greeks: a fact of which there are explicit proofs.")

Greek scholarship passes over with an underestimation the historic fact of the migration of peoples which fundamentally redrew the ethnic map of Europe, and especially of the Balkans, during the early Byzantine period. Macedonia has been represented as a buffer protecting Hellenism from the waves of the barbarians throughout the centuries. The Slavonic element in Greece is either denied or minimalized and it is well known that the Byzantine historian Constantine Porphyrogenitus openly says that the whole of Hellas had been Slavicized - It is likewise a known fact that the Slavonic tribes of the Ezerites and the Milingi were independent in the Peloponnese in the 7th and 8th centuries and did not pay tribute to Byzantium. If such facts are borne in mind, it is not difficult to understand whether Macedonia at that period was really a "bastion of Hellenism".

There have been protests in Greece that we have not used toponyms from the Aegean part of Macedonia in the forms which were given to them by decree after 1913 and more especially in 1926 because this has called Greek sovereignty into question. Demelios Georgakas" notes that even today in the Peloponnese no matter in which direction one moves one cannot go three miles without encountering a Slavonic place-name. Similar statements have been made by Ph. Malingudis. If there are so many Slavonic place-names in the Peloponnese, how many more are there in the Aegean part of Macedonia where the Slavonic tribes dwelt? And today Slavs have been living there for a period of 1,400 years. What is more natural than that the Balkanized Slavs who have lived so long and continuously in Macedonia should be called Macedonians and their language Macedonian. During the period of Thucydides (11, 99) the population of Northern (Upper) Macedonia was distinguished from the Macedonian conquerors; but even those from Upper Macedonia were likewise called Macedonians. It is very unscholarly to speak of a homogenization of just one nation in these regions of the Balkans.

Greek scholarship passes over with an underestimation the historic fact of the migration of peoples which fundamentally redrew the ethnic map of Europe, and especially of the Balkans, during the early Byzantine period.

I will not review the book at this time for our Greek-reading Augustans, other than to indicate broadly my impression that the seven contributing writers have built a well-reasoned argument for the essential Hellenism of Alexander the Great. One cannot, however, avoid suspicion of a hidden political agenda to head off any future South Slavic irredentism for the Macedonian-speaking hinterland of Thessalonica. Unlike Veneti the book presents no linguistic evidence to shore up its premises and conclusions.

Granted, as A. I Thabores correctly points out (p. 194) in his chapter,"He Hellenike Dialektos ton Archaion Makedonon kai ta Semerina Neo-Hellenica Idiomata tes Makedonias (kai tes Alles Boreias Helladas)," "The Greek Dialect of the Ancient Macedonians and the Modern New Greek Dialects of Macedonia (and the Rest of Northern Greece)":
". . . the names of their gods, the myths and the mythical heroes, their personal names, the monumental and place names and local items of their dialect ... are all essentially Greek." [my translation] Yet I would query whether this might not be reflective of an on-going, pervasive Greek cultural influence in the frontier zone between Greece and the Balkan peoples reaching back to the pre-heroic age.

The passage that caught my eye and that I would bring to the attention of our fellow Augustan, Dr. Jozko Šavli, and his co-authors of Veneti, Prof. Matej Bor and Father Ivan Tomazic, occurs in Anna Panagiotou's study (pp. 187-188), "He Glossa ton Archaion Epigraphon tes Makedonias," "'The Language of the Ancient Inscriptions of Macedonia." I urge Dr. Savli and his colleagues to reexamine the known Macedonian inscriptions -- there are some 6,000 of themthrough the prism of Slovenian diachronic dialectology, and I first pose the challenging question here in The Augustan: Though thoroughly assimilated into the Greek culture and language through the education of his teacher, Aristotle, can it be that Alexander the Great himself emerged into world history from a Proto-(West) Slavic, i.e., Venetic, family background?

I translate Ms. Panagiotou's reference to a passage in Curtius(2) Hist. Alex. Magni Maced., IV, I11.4.:

... which narrates another event of the kingdom of Alexander... considered as an indication that the Macedonian language was not a Greek dialect, but a different language: the general Philotas was accused by one of his compatriots of not feeling ashamed,


" . . . Macedonatus, homines linguae suae per interpretem audire,"
". . . born a Macedonian, to hear the men of his language through an interpreter,"

i.e., according to this passage, Philotas had need of translators in order to understand the mother tongue.

Yet in a curious way, this passage comes to contradict another by the same author in the same document (VI.9.34-36.) Alexander asks if Philotas will speak in the language of their fathers,

"... Macedones ... de te indicaturi sunt, quero an patrio sermone sis apud eos usurus," "... the Macedonians who will judge you, I ask if you will use the language of [our] fathers with them,"


and elicited the response:

"Praeter Macedonas ... plerique adsunt, quos facilius quae dicam percep-turus arbitror, si eadem lingua fuero usus qua tu egisti, non ob aliud, credo quam ut oratio tua intellegi posset a pluribus,"
"[Above and] beyond the Macedonians ... there are many present whom, I feel, will more easily grasp the things I say if I use the same language you did, for no other reason, I believe, than that your speech might be understood by many."

This explanation caused the angry remarks of Alexander that Philotas neglects to speak in the language of their fathers:

"Ecquid videtis adeo etiam sermonis patrii Philotan toedere? Solus quippe fastidit eum discere. Sed dicat sane utcumque ei cordi est, dum memineritis aeque ilium a nostro more quam sermone abhorrere,"
"Have you ever seen Philotas reject the language of [our] fathers heretofore? Indeed, he alone is averse to learning it. Let him then say, however, it is in his heart, since you will remember that he is opposed to our custom[s] as well as our language."

Ms. Panagiotou's article proceeds to attempt to explain this passage as referring to a northern Hellenic dialect so greatly at variance with the contemporary Koine that it might just as well have been a foreign language. Her attempt falls short of convincing.

Now, the work plan before us is not complex. The Macedonian inscriptions, must be scrutinized anew by the trained and sensitive eyes of Slavicists of the stature of the authors of Veneti. Let this task be undertaken at the earliest possible moment.

ENDNOTES:

1. Charles Bryant-Abraham, PhD, Fellow, The Jerusalem Center for Biblical Studies and Research Jerusalem, Israel
2. Cf John C. Rolfe. Quintus Curtius (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1962.)
   Rolfe states (p. xviii): "Curtius's principal source is Clitarchus, son of Dinon (Pliny, NH. x (49) 136), who accompanied Alexander's expedition and wrote a highly coloured account of it ... Curtius used Clitarchus in a changed and contaminated form, perhaps through Timagenes, whom he mentions in viii. 5.21 in connexion with Clitarchus and Ptolemy ... He differs with Clitarchus in ix. 5.21 and follows Ptolemy, censuring Clitarchus for carelessness or credulity. . ."
   Rolfe adds (p. 3od): "The Historiae seem to be the work of a rhetorician rather than of an historian. One of his principle aims was to insert in his work brilliant speeches and romantic incidents. Doubtless he wished to give a correct account, but his imperfect knowledge of history and geography led him into many errors.

   Rolfe is correct in pointing out (p. xxiv) that the chancellery language of Macedonia was Greek: "For some generations the court language was Attic Greek." Yet, even conservatively admitting constraints on Curtius' accuracy, we must presume a kernel veracity for the passages in question. That presumption is sufficient to warrant reexamination of the Macedonian inscriptions by Venetologists.


http://www.prah.net/europaveneta/augustan/updateonveneti.htm - http://www.prah.net/europaveneta/augustan/updateonveneti.htm

Ancient Quotes on the Macedonians as Distinct Nation

The ancient Greek, Roman, and Jewish historians, geographers, and orators, speak of the Macedonians as distinct nation, separate from their Greek, Thracian, and Illyrian neighbors. They are clear that Macedonia was never part of Greece and that the Macedonians conquered Greece, Thrace, and Illyria, and kept the Greeks, Thracians, and Illyrians enslaved, until Rome defeated the Macedonian armies and turned the country into its first province in 168 BC. The assertion of those modern historians that propagate that the Macedonians "were Greeks" which have "united" Greece, is absurd and is completely unsupported by the words of the ancients who clearly considered Greece subjected by the Macedonian foreigners. The Macedonians garrisoned the Greek cities (like the Thracian and Illyrian cities) to enforce their occupation, and later used the Greeks (along with equal numbers of the Thracians and Illyrians) for their conquest of Persia.

1) diodorus.html - 12) plutarch.html -

2) justin.html - 13) livy.html -

3) arrian.html - 14) Polybius.html -

4) curtius.html - 15) Thracymachus.html -

5) Thucydides.html - 16) herodotus.html -

6) isocrates.html - 17) demosthenes.html -

7) Ephoros.html - 18) Josephus.html -

8) Ptolemy.html - 19) strabo.html -

9) pausanias.html - 20) Dionysius1.html -

10) medeius.html - 21) PseudoSkylax.html -

11) PseudoHerodotus.html - 22) DionysiusSon.html - The ancient Greeks did not regard the Macedonians as Greeks, nor the Macedonians regarded themselves to be Greek. They were proud of their Macedonian nationality and way of life, and looked down upon the Greeks and with contempt. The Greeks called them barbarians, along with the Persians, Illyrians, and Thracians, a label that they attributed to all non-Greeks who neither spoke nor understood the Greek language. Alexander's Macedonian Army was not a "Greek army" as some modern writers have erroneously claimed, nor the Macedonian conquest of Asia was a "Greek conquest". The fact is that not one ancient writer has called the Macedonian empire "Greek" or the Macedonian army and conquest "Greek", but specifically Macedonian. When Rome clashed with Macedonia, the Macedonians were ordered by the Romans to evacuate from the whole of Greece and withdraw to Macedonia. They were hated by the Greeks ever since Philip II defeated the Greeks at Chaeronea in 338 BC and brought Greece to its kneel, and the Greeks fought fiercely, first on the side of the Persians and later on the side of the Romans to expel the Macedonians from their country. Too late would they realize that the Macedonian occupation would only be replaced by the Roman. In between the Greeks fought many unsuccessful wars against the Macedonians to drive them out of Greece, among which the Lamian War is the most famous. It should be noted that the Lamian War was triggered by the death of Alexander the Great, which encouraged the Greeks to rebel. The purpose of this page is to provide the reader with the actual quotes of the ancient Greek, Roman, and Jewish historians, geographers, and orators that speak of the above assertions, and show that the ancient Macedonians were not Greeks (as the modern Greeks claim today) but a distinct nation. The reader is cautioned that these ancient quotes are not found at the Greek Internet pages which propagate that the Macedonians "were Greek". Since these overwhelming quotes confirm the fact that the ancient Macedonians were not Greek, the Greek Internet pages purposely avoid them, as they have no way of explaining them. But to the ancient peoples and to the ancient authors the distinctive ethnicity of the Macedonians was not a matter for debate - it was simply a fact.

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Постирано од: borec
Датум на внесување: 08.Октомври.2007 во 09:30

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Modern Historians on the Macedonians as Distinct Nation   Like the ancientevidence.html - , modern historiography correctly considers the ancient Macedonians as distinct nation, separate from the ancient Greek nation. Below are the names of among the most respectable American, German, French, and British modern historians, which have written extensive studies about the ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians, the history of the Macedonian nation, or the history of Alexander the Great.   1) borza.html - 8) Rawlinson.html - 2) badian1.html - 9) wilken.html - 3) green.html - 10) grant.html - 4) bosworth.html - 11) reed.html - 5) hammond.html - 12) hogarth.html - 6) wagner.html - 13) GreeceandMacedon.htm - 7) pierre.html - 12) apa.html -   However, there are some modern historians who do not accept the fact that the Macedonians were non-Greeks. Regardless, their error is easily detected and one can see that such error results either from a lack of knowledge on the subject, or because of an attempt to misrepresent the Macedonians by intentionally ascribing them a Greek nationality. We will analyze their mistakes in the criticism.html - page.  Постирано од: borec Датум на внесување: 08.Октомври.2007 во 09:33 The Distortions of the Modern Western and Greek Historians   It is indeed shocking to see that despite the overwhelming AncientEvidence.html -      martis.html -    martis.html -    andronikos.html -    sakellariou.html -    errington.html -    hammond.html -    wood.html -   What can we conclude from the above analysis? Relying on authentic ancient and modern evidence we found clear mistakes and distortions made by the modern Greek and Western authors Sakellariou, Martis, Daskalakis, Hammond, Errington, and Wood, for falsely portraying the history of Macedonia by ascribing incorrect (Greek) ethnic identity to the ancient Macedonians. AlexandertheGreat.html - greeklie4.html - . However, this ‘Greek’ position is nowadays regarded as outdated and finally thrown out from the history, pawing the way for the ModernHistorians.html -   Постирано од: borec Датум на внесување: 08.Октомври.2007 во 09:43 "One modern Greek intellectual who now lives outside of that country has reflected on the forces within Greece that foster and sustain the theory of Greek ethnic purity:  In retrospect it is clear to me that my 12 years of Greek schooling, mainly in the 1970s, conspired to instill in me precisely one attitude: an almost unshakable belief in the purity and unity of the Greek people, language and culture ... Belief in the continuity of Greece against all odds was enabled also by the method of withholding information and sealing off interpretive paths. We had, as children, neither the capacity nor the inclination to explore disunities and "impurities.”  Eric Hobsbawn reminds us:  The most usual ideological abuse of history is based on anachronism rather than lies. Greek nationalism refused Macedonia even the right to its name on the grounds that all Macedonia is essentially Greek and part of a Greek nation-State, presumably ever since the father of Alexander the Great, king of Macedonia, became ruler of the Greek lands on the Balkan peninsula ... it takes a lot of courage for a Greek intellectual to say that, historically speaking, it is nonsense. There was no Greek nation-State or any other single political entity for the Greeks in the fourth century B.C.; the Macedonian empire was nothing like the Greek or any other modern nation-state, and in any case it is highly probable that the ancient Greeks regarded the Macedonian rulers, as they did their later Roman rulers, as barbarians and not as Greeks, though they were doubtless too polite or cautious to say so."  Постирано од: borec Датум на внесување: 08.Октомври.2007 во 18:37 Moze ovoj sleden text NE e vo direktna vrska so temata - megutoa e posledica od situacijata vo koja sto sme denes, pa zatoa resiv da ja postiram.  The ominous prophecy of Harilaos Trikoupis, Greek Prime Minister from 1882 to 1895, foretold what the neighboring Greek state had in mind for Macedonia and its people: "When the great war comes, Macedonia will become Greek or Bulgarian, according to who wins. If it is taken by the Bulgarians, they will turn the population into Slavs. If we take it, we will make all of them into Greeks". 1912  Balkan Wars Irredentist Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria and Montenegro drive a crumbling Ottoman Empire out of the Balkans and pursue territorial expansion into Macedonia. Greek army enters Aegean Macedonia ostensibly to "liberate" Macedonia from the Ottoman. From "liberation to tyranny", Greek army commences savage and bloody "ethnic cleansing" of the towns of Kukush, Doiran, Demir-Hisar and Serres in the Aegean Macedonia.160 Macedonian villages burned, and atrocities committed. Mass exodus of refugees. 1912  when Greece, for the first time ever, comes into possession of Macedonian territory by force of arms. Almost a decade had passed since the 1903 Ilinden (St. Ilija Day) Uprising lead by the IMRO (Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization) in a failed effort to free Macedonia from the Ottoman yoke. 1913  Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian alliance breaks down over competing claims for Macedonia. Bulgaria miscalculates and attacks Serbia and Greek armies. Ottoman forces rejoin war against Bulgaria. Bulgaria defeated, loses territorial gains in Macedonia. Greece refers to conquered Macedonian lands as the "new territories" under "military administration". Not yet officially incorporated into the Kingdom of Greece. Military occupation augmented by influx of administrators, educators; police brought from Greece. Professor R.A. Reiss reports to the Greek government: "Those whom you would call Bulgarian speakers I would simply call Macedonians...Macedonian is not the language they speak in Sofia...I repeat the mass of inhabitants there (Macedonia) remain simply Macedonians."   Постирано од: orlov Датум на внесување: 10.Октомври.2007 во 23:27 borec напиша: Moze ovoj sleden text NE e vo direktna vrska so temata - megutoa e posledica od situacijata vo koja sto sme denes, pa zatoa resiv da ja postiram.  The ominous prophecy of Harilaos Trikoupis, Greek Prime Minister from 1882 to 1895, foretold what the neighboring Greek state had in mind for Macedonia and its people: "When the great war comes, Macedonia will become Greek or Bulgarian, according to who wins. If it is taken by the Bulgarians, they will turn the population into Slavs. If we take it, we will make all of them into Greeks". 1912  Balkan Wars Irredentist Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria and Montenegro drive a crumbling Ottoman Empire out of the Balkans and pursue territorial expansion into Macedonia. Greek army enters Aegean Macedonia ostensibly to "liberate" Macedonia from the Ottoman. From "liberation to tyranny", Greek army commences savage and bloody "ethnic cleansing" of the towns of Kukush, Doiran, Demir-Hisar and Serres in the Aegean Macedonia.160 Macedonian villages burned, and atrocities committed. Mass exodus of refugees. 1912  when Greece, for the first time ever, comes into possession of Macedonian territory by force of arms. Almost a decade had passed since the 1903 Ilinden (St. Ilija Day) Uprising lead by the IMRO (Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization) in a failed effort to free Macedonia from the Ottoman yoke. 1913  Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian alliance breaks down over competing claims for Macedonia. Bulgaria miscalculates and attacks Serbia and Greek armies. Ottoman forces rejoin war against Bulgaria. Bulgaria defeated, loses territorial gains in Macedonia. Greece refers to conquered Macedonian lands as the "new territories" under "military administration". Not yet officially incorporated into the Kingdom of Greece. Military occupation augmented by influx of administrators, educators; police brought from Greece. Professor R.A. Reiss reports to the Greek government: "Those whom you would call Bulgarian speakers I would simply call Macedonians...Macedonian is not the language they speak in Sofia...I repeat the mass of inhabitants there (Macedonia) remain simply Macedonians."   Не е, точно така но и за него има место во темата, и кое е најбиѕно атина треба да знае дека сепак благодарение на нас опстанала и останала. ------------- ,,СЕКОГАШ ВО СЛУЖБА НА ТАТКОВИНАТА,,               Постирано од: borec Датум на внесување: 13.Октомври.2007 во 11:38 Ova se mnogu validni informacii (za onie koi ne gi znaele veke) PAK NE DIREKTNO POVRZANI SO TEMATA MEGUTOA OD OVIE INFORMACII SE POTVRDUVA - DEKA GRCIJA NEMALA DRZAVNOST PRED OVOJ PERIOD I PLUS TOA DEKA NIEDNA OD TERITORIITE PRED OVOJ PERIOD NE BILA NIKOGAS NIVNA  - KAKO STO I SAMITE SI STAVILE NASLOV  "GREEK TERRITORIAL GAINS"  sto prevedeno bi znacelo  "Grcki teritorialni pridobivki". I uste edna mnogu vazna informacija e deka Grcite si ja kupile nazad svojata teritorija duri pisuva i kolku pari tocno gi cinelo toa (so kredit od Anglija) od Turcite (bez da vojuvaat -  normalno za nivniot karakter) - I SEGA TUKA E MNOGU BITNO PRASANJETO "Ako Egejska Makedonija bila nivna, togas ZOSTO I NEA NE SI JA KUPELE VO TOA VREME????" Tuku morale da izmislat vojna za "kobajagno osloboduvanje" na Makedonija zaedno so nejzinite sojuznici - za koj ishodot od taa vojna tie veke odnapred go isplanirale.  GREEK TERRITORIAL GAINS (1832-1947) Treaty of Constantinople (1832) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: #column-one - navigation , #searchInput - search /wiki/Image:Greekhistory.GIF"> /wiki/Image:Greekhistory.GIF"> Map showing the original territory of the /wiki/Kingdom_of_Greece - Kingdom of Greece as laid down in the Treaty of 1832 (in dark blue) The Τreaty of Constantinople was the product of the Constantinople Conference which opened in February 1832 with the participation of the /wiki/Great_power - Great Powers (the /wiki/United_Kingdom - United Kingdom , /wiki/France - France and /wiki/Russia - Russia ) on the one hand and the /wiki/Ottoman_Empire - Ottoman Empire on the other. The factors which shaped the treaty included the refusal of /wiki/L%C3%A9opold_I_of_Belgium - Léopold King of /wiki/Belgium - Belgium to assume the /wiki/Greece - Greek throne. He inter alia was not at all satisfied with the Aspropotamos-Zitouni borderline, which replaced the more favorable Arta-Volos line considered by the Great Powers earlier. The withdrawal of /wiki/L%C3%A9opold_I_of_Belgium - Léopold as a candidate for the throne of Greece, and the /wiki/July_Revolution - July Revolution in France, delayed the final settlement of the frontiers of the new kingdom until a new government was formed in the United Kingdom. Lord /wiki/Henry_John_Temple%2C_3rd_Viscount_Palmerston - Palmerston , who took over as British /wiki/Foreign_Secretary - Foreign Secretary , agreed to the Arta-Volos borderline. However, the secret note on /wiki/Crete - Crete , which the /wiki/Bavaria - Bavarian plenipotentiary communicated to the Courts of the United Kingdom, France and Russia, bore no fruit. Under the /wiki/London_Conference_of_1832 - protocol signed on /wiki/May_7 - May 7 , /wiki/1832 - 1832 between Bavaria and the protecting Powers, and basically dealing with the way in which the Regency was to be managed until /wiki/Otto_of_Greece - Otto reached his majority (while also concluding the second Greek loan, for a sum of £2,400,000 sterling), Greece was defined as an independent kingdom, with the Arta-Volos line as its northern frontier. The Ottoman Empire was indemnified in the sum of 40,000,000 piastres for the loss of the territory. The borders of the Kingdom were reiterated in the London Protocol of /wiki/August_30 - August 30 , /wiki/1832 - 1832 signed by the Great Powers, which ratified the terms of the Constantinople Arrangement in connection with the border between Greece and the Ottoman Empire and marked the end of the /wiki/Greek_War_of_Independence - Greek War of Independence creating modern Greece as an independent state free of the Ottoman Empire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Constantinople_%281832%29 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Constantinople_%281832%29 Постирано од: VladimirCHE Датум на внесување: 13.Октомври.2007 во 14:33 MAKEDONIJA E MAJKA NA SVETOT (no zosto nie ne vrsevme makedonizam -nasproti helinizmot na helenite) tuka e problemot ------------- Постирано од: borec Датум на внесување: 13.Октомври.2007 во 14:51 Vladimir напиша: MAKEDONIJA E MAJKA NA SVETOT (no zosto nie ne vrsevme makedonizam -nasproti helinizmot na helenite) tuka e problemot NE E NIKAKOV "PROBLEM" naprotiv - sekogas  prisilnoto teranje na nekakva promena na vera ili jazik NIKOGAS I OD NIKOGO NE BILA NITU PAK KE BIDE PRIFATENA - i sekogas zavrsuva so NECIE OSVESTUVANJE I REVOLT!!!  Plus toa sekoj narod si ima svoj sopstven beleg po koj toj licno si se identifikuva kako pripadnik na toj narod - i stvarno e steta sega da se unisti raznolikosta na tie culturi i tradicii ZARADI STO???? DA BIDEME SITE ISTI???? NELI E TOA MONOTONO I NEINSPIRATIVNO??? Zosto mislis deka Alexandar bil tolku sakan i prifaten od SITE zemji koi gi osvoil????? (osven Grcite se razbira)  Постирано од: VladimirCHE Датум на внесување: 13.Октомври.2007 во 17:13 http://forum.idividi.com.mk/member_profile.asp?PF=13106&FID=68 - borec  mozebi ti imas pravo vo toa sto go pisuvas no ke bese mnogu podobro ako imavme pogolemo vlijanie vrz seto toa a toa ke se ostvarese ako Aleksandar Makedonski prestanel da sonuva za istok i da se vrati vo pela i toa da bide centarot na dotogasnite osvoeni teritorii ALEKSANDAR MAKEDONSKI E ZA MENE NAJUSPESNIOT MAKEDONEC SO KOGO TREBA DA SE GORDEEME NO I TOJ PRAVEL GRESKI   ps MAKEDONIJA E MAJKA NA CIVILIZACIJATA,ANTIKATA = KORENITE,ZACETOKOT na SVETOT E MAKEDONIJA   pozdrav-do kreatorot na ovaa tema (SITE VO SVETOT SE MAKEDONCI) ova ne e abstraktna forma na recenica ova e fakt ------------- Постирано од: miha Датум на внесување: 13.Октомври.2007 во 23:26 aha . . . mozebi delam isto misluvanje ... Постирано од: filibe Датум на внесување: 13.Октомври.2007 во 23:31 i zulusite li ------------- Съединението прави силата Постирано од: Boogie Датум на внесување: 13.Октомври.2007 во 23:52 ???????????????????????? ------------- http://www.TattooArtists.org/boogie" rel="nofollow - Борбата продолжува,поробениот за слобода а слободниот за совршенство Постирано од: borec Датум на внесување: 14.Октомври.2007 во 08:22 Vladimir напиша: http://forum.idividi.com.mk/member_profile.asp?PF=13106&FID=68 - Megutoa da, nikoj ne e idealen, pa taka i toj. A mnogu e bitno site nie da ucime od greskite i po moznost da ne gi povtoruvame. Постирано од: m__g__ Датум на внесување: 14.Октомври.2007 во 16:17 Браво бе Буги - вече и Библията модерираш? Ма как го забърса Матей ------------- Go ahead! Make my day! Постирано од: dozd Датум на внесување: 14.Октомври.2007 во 16:22 M_G NA BLGARSKI DA NE NI JA CITIRAS SEGA I BIBLIJATA....DLABOK DOSTREL IMAS VO SEVKUPNIOT BLGARSKI POST SIRUM SVETOT SE NADEVAM TVOJTA MAJKA BLGARIA KE TE NAGRADI ZA STORENOTO DO SEGA A MOZE I POSTHUMNO STOZNAES. Постирано од: Boogie Датум на внесување: 14.Октомври.2007 во 16:27 Мислам дека темата е јасна ве молам не спамирајте ------------- http://www.TattooArtists.org/boogie" rel="nofollow - Борбата продолжува,поробениот за слобода а слободниот за совршенство Постирано од: m__g__ Датум на внесување: 14.Октомври.2007 во 17:43 dozd напиша: M_G NA BLGARSKI DA NE NI JA CITIRAS SEGA I BIBLIJATA....DLABOK DOSTREL IMAS VO SEVKUPNIOT BLGARSKI POST SIRUM SVETOT SE NADEVAM TVOJTA MAJKA BLGARIA KE TE NAGRADI ZA STORENOTO DO SEGA A MOZE I POSTHUMNO STOZNAES. BLACKY? PS Буги - ново аватарче - много куул ------------- Go ahead! Make my day! Постирано од: dozd Датум на внесување: 14.Октомври.2007 во 18:03 m__g__ напиша: dozd напиша: M_G NA BLGARSKI DA NE NI JA CITIRAS SEGA I BIBLIJATA....DLABOK DOSTREL IMAS VO SEVKUPNIOT BLGARSKI POST SIRUM SVETOT SE NADEVAM TVOJTA MAJKA BLGARIA KE TE NAGRADI ZA STORENOTO DO SEGA A MOZE I POSTHUMNO STOZNAES. BLACKY? PS Буги - ново аватарче - много куул Постирано од: VladimirCHE Датум на внесување: 14.Октомври.2007 во 18:53 Na  http://forum.idividi.com.mk/member_profile.asp?PF=13081&FID=68 - MAGNAT.  temata mu pocina so aleksandar makedonski po moja inicijativa (bidejki poveke vreme go nema-mislam deka temata e super i steta sto ne ja posetuva) ke zavrsi so aleksandar makedonski ako mislis deka sme se odalecile poglednigo i pocetokot i temata-Boogie ------------- Постирано од: orlov Датум на внесување: 15.Октомври.2007 во 22:21 Vladimir напиша: Na  http://forum.idividi.com.mk/member_profile.asp?PF=13081&FID=68 - Magnat, времено е отсутен. Не е во државава. Се враќа за ден или два и темата ќе продолжи. Брка спонзори за промоција на книгата ,,АНТИКАТА Е ВИСТИНАТА ЗА КОРЕНИТЕ НА МАКЕДОНСКИОТ НАРОД,, ------------- ,,СЕКОГАШ ВО СЛУЖБА НА ТАТКОВИНАТА,,               Постирано од: MAGNAT. Датум на внесување: 26.Октомври.2007 во 22:51 ШЕСТИ ДЕЛ: (дел пред промоција на книгата ,,АНТИКАТА Е ВИСТИНАТА ЗА КОРЕНИТЕ НА МАКЕДОНСКИОТ НАРОД,,) Александар во походот против Персија стартувал со пешадијата од Пела и морнарицата (флота) од пристаништето Амфипол. Првиот воен судир со Персија по двајсет дена движење, се одиграл кај реката Граник 334 г.п.н.е. и овде страшно ја погазил Персијската војска. Втората битка се одиграла, кај местото Ис 333г.п.н.е. повторноовде Дариј доживеал дебакл, имал заробено многу војници, оружје,  злато и целото царско семејство, успевајки тој да побегне. Потоа Александар скоро без војна ги освоил и ослободил од Персија: Сирија, Палстина и Египет, каде бил пречекан како ослободител и бил наречен- син на богот на сонцето Амон Ра.     Во третата битка на исток- Александар со Персија се судрил кај Гавгамела 331 г.п.н.е каде Александар однел целосна победа над Персија.     Александар после овој голем успех не застанал и имал освојувачки дух, и не бил задоволен со веќе освоеното. Сакал и посакувал да ја освои Индија, за која како дете гаел посебни симпатии и интерес, кои му го презентирал на Аристотел. А, интересот на Александар од страна на Аристотел бил прифатен со восхит и желба за доживување на Индија, таа мгична земја, на чудеса и имагинации.     Во 326г.п.н.е Александар влегува во Индија со воениот поход по копно и вода,  кај реката Инд крвао ја поразува индиската војска. Долгите походи,  исцрпеноста, маларијата, предизвикале револт и бунт кај  војската и желба за нејзино  враќање назад  поради кое Александар  ја прифаќа нивната желба и наредува враќање назад по копно и вода.     Александар со својата свита се враќа во Вавилон- неговата  светска македонска престолнина и овде тој организира свадба на 1000 (иљада) пара млади  на која  им се придружува и самиот женејкисе со  две убави персиски принцези, за да им  даде сјај  и спектакл  на успешните војни  и да ја  прослави  својата светска империја.     За жал Александар нема среќа да им се израдува на големите победи- империјата и убавите принцези, затоа што по свадбата 323г.п.н.е умира од непознати причини. Некој велат од маларија,  но воените истражувачи и аналитичари  во своите истражувања покажуваат дека е отруен  од неговите блиски, од завист и желби за кралската круна.     Замнина Александар, не остави потомок, но остави големи историски зафати, кои зафати  историјата  ќе ги бележи како  зафати на најголем  освојувач и император во светската историјографија за  самобитноста на МАКЕДОНИЈА.      Александар- зад себе остави  богато  културно  наследство за МАКЕДОНИЈА. ------------- ,, KRIG BLIC ,, Постирано од: orlov Датум на внесување: 27.Октомври.2007 во 21:44 Ете зошто Атињаните кажуваат дека македонија не ја признаваат. Па како може да бараме тие да не признаат кога ние самите не знаеме ништо за нас, а згора на тоа и не се интересираме.  ------------- ,,СЕКОГАШ ВО СЛУЖБА НА ТАТКОВИНАТА,,               Постирано од: macc Датум на внесување: 29.Октомври.2007 во 20:12 Vo idniot period najveke vnimanie treba da posvetime na Kamenot od Rozeta. Toj ke bige koska v grlo na site koi ke sakaat da se konfrontiraat so nas za naseto postoenje i egzistiranje na ovie prostori kako makednoci. Sredniot tekst apsolutno ja menuva istorijata vo pozitiven pravec za nas. Tome Bosevski i Aristotel Tentov treba da bidat predlozeni za Nobelova nagrada. Nivnoto otkritie ja razotkriva dolgogodisnata laga plasirana vo istoriskite citanki za navodnata preselba na narodite. Imalo preselba na narodite, no toa bilo vo obratna nasoka, i toa bilo predizvikano od navleguvanjeto na rimskite vojnici koi porazuvajki go posledniot car na anticka Makedonija, carot Persej, pocnale da kolat i besat. Dvizenjeto na okolu 5 milioni makedonci na sever i na severoistok (vo toa vreme samo mozeme da pretpostavime kolkava masa na lugje e toa) e vsusnost naseluvanje na centralna i istocna evropa so makedonci (sloveni). Dokazot deka antickite makedonci se vsusnost istite tie sto ziveat i denes vo istoimenata drzava koja dolgi vekovi ne go smenilo imeto, e trn vo oko na zasega, nasite neprijateli elinite, no ne ja isklucuva moznosta da ima otpor za prifakjanje i od drugi drzavi pod vlijanie na eliniskoto lobi. Постирано од: borec Датум на внесување: 30.Октомври.2007 во 05:50 EVE NEKOLKU IZVADOCI OD TOLKUVANJATA NA "GRCKATA" STRATEGUIJA ZA PRISVOJUVANJE NA SE STO E MAKEDONSKO: "This was the megali idea-the "great idea." "Nature," said an early nationalist, "has set limits to the aspirations of other men, but not to those of the Greeks. The Greeks were not in the past and are not now subject to the laws of nature." The megali idea (the word "megalomania" comes from the same root) was made up of dreams and fantasies, of a reborn empire reflecting the golden age when Greek had been spoken from Rome to the Crimea." The Legend of Basil the Bulgar-Slayer   "Paul Stephenson's short monograph is not a biography in the traditional sense of that word. As the author points out in the introduction, his book is "a survey from the time of his death to the present, of Basil's reputation as the 'Bulgar-slayer'" (1). The eight chapters are well integrated, although each one of them may be used separately as a solid essay on such diverse themes as "Victory and its representations" or "Basile apres Byzance." The first chapter surveys the political and military background that is much more thoroughly discussed in chapter 2 (11-21) and 3 (32-48). Chapter 4 is concerned with the representation in both texts and visual arts of the kind of military triumph that Basil purportedly celebrated after the conquest and annexation of Bulgaria in 1018. Chapter 5 examines the image of Basil II coming out of texts written between the early eleventh century (after Basil's death) and the twelfth century. In Chapter 6, Stephenson ably demonstrates that the legend of the Bulgar-Slayer is a byproduct of the tensions created in the Balkan provinces of the Empire in the late 1100s, as Byzantine authority was challenged first by Bulgarians and Vlachs, then by the Fourth Crusade. In chapter 7, Stephenson then follows the myth-making process during the Tourkokratia and the nineteenth century, following the creation of an independent Greek state. Finally, chapter 8 is dedicated to the use and abuse of the legend in the context of the "Macedonian question," especially during the Second Balkan War. Stephenson offers a fascinating discussion of the relation between scholarly research in Byzantine studies and nation building, a process that is still on its way in some of the countries in the region, especially in the newly-established Macedonia, a country known by the odd name of FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia). To modern nationalists, Basil II was a ruthless tyrant, eager to shed the blood of the Slavic enemy in order to promote a Greek empire."  Постирано од: мало дете Датум на внесување: 01.Ноември.2007 во 19:59 MAGNAT. напиша: ЧЕТВРТИ ДЕЛ;     По овој успешен поход, страв и паника ги зафатило грчките градови (држави), поради истото голем број грчки градови за да го избегнат стравот и срамот од пораз започнале без војна сами да и се предаваат на Македонија.     Единствена држава која правела отпор и не сакала да се предаде била Атина, која слепо била заведена од Демостен. Филип втори не сакал лоши односи со Атина, бидејки бил демократ, но поводот за војна била провокацијата на говорот на Демостен, кој со грди зборови го нарекол Филип- варварин.     На оваа провокација нашиот филип, пред да ја нападне Атина истапува со одговорот: ,, Ќе види сега тоа грчко куче кој е варварин, а кој е демократ,,.     Во 338 г.п.н.е. Атина е страшно поразена во битката кај Херонеја. Со оваа победа Филип под своја управа ѓи става грчките градови- држави побивајкија тезата за Хеленското потекло на Македонците. Филип не е само голем стратег, тој е и добар реформатор во сите свери на општественото живеење и опстојување. Така на пример Филип втори освен воените реформи, превзел и низа економски реформи, од кои најпознати се: промовирање на валутата статер, инвестрањето во изградба на патиштата, пристаништа и градови, како Пела- Хераклеа, Стоби и други.     По успешните војни со соседите, Филип бил првиот признат крал со свое воено, стратешко, политичко и државничко неимарство од страна на сите покорени народи и од Хелените. И покрај овие големи успеси во јакнењето на македонија на овие јужни простори на Европа, Филип не се чувствувал спокоен, и кај него постоел немир од новата опасност од Персија. Сето ова е повеќе од јасно,Филип и Александар војувале со грчките градови-полиси.Време е грците да се свестат,ако Александар е "нивни" тогаш тие војувале сами помеѓу себе. ------------- Мало дете Постирано од: мало дете Датум на внесување: 01.Ноември.2007 во 20:02 Алал да му е на Проф.д-р Стефан Влахов-Мицов што толку добро ја опишал македонската историја во неговата книга "Филозофскиот клуч на македонскиот идентитет" ------------- Мало дете Постирано од: borec Датум на внесување: 07.Ноември.2007 во 14:54 EVE USHTE EDNO GRCHKO FALSIFIKUVANJE NA ORIGINALEN DOCUMENT OD WASHINGTON D.C. - sto tie samite propushtile da go unishtat, megutoa gi izlazale nekako Amerikancite za da DOPISHAT pod originalnoto ime SALONICA (ili Solun, po nase) i Thessaloniki i toa RACHNO E NAPRAVENO, duri PEMNOGU OCHIGLEDNO. Za koe Amerikancite i davaat objasnuvanje (podolu vo originalniot text) deka BIL IZMENET po baranje na Grchkata Vlada, vo 1943 god. kobajagi vrz osnov na nekoe si Survey vo 1924god. Megutoa SEPAK zaboravile deka se "short" vo godinite - zosto originalniot document datira od 1917 god. a ne celi 7 god. PODOCNA. ZNACHI SI DALE VREME ZA PROMENITE STO GI NAPRAVILE POSLE 1913 god. A  GI IMALO MNOGU  - BRISHI-PISHI. MED141 - WWII-197 - U. S. Hydrographic Office- "Mediterranean Sea-Greece, East Coast. Salonika Bay (Thessalonike)." Wash. D.C. 1917 (Corrected in 1943). From a Greek Government Survey in 1924. Detailed soundings in fathoms. Street block plan and insert of Salonika Harbor with wharves. Locates Kalamaria, Barracks and Aerodrome. Penciled note "Use with caution." 28"x23" #4150. http://www.gracegalleries.com/images/MED/MED141.jpg - http://www.gracegalleries.com/images/MED/MED141.jpg Постирано од: borec Датум на внесување: 07.Ноември.2007 во 15:27 ABE ZNAETE LI STO E SEGA MNOGU AKTUELNO KAJ GRCITE???? Baraat segde "kutrite" kaj ke najdat po nekoja zaostanata STARA MAPA kade sto ja JASNO ja oznachuva NASHATA DRZAVA MAKEDONIJA i nivnata TO SO LUPA SE NAOGA "ANTICHKA GRCIJA" - GI OTKUPUVAAT SITE AKO MOZAT, PA POSLE SAMITE TIE GI PREPRODAVAAT KAKO COPII OD "ORIGINAL" SO FALSIFIKUVANI OZNAKI!!!  Na primer kaj sto pishuvalo Makedonija kako drzava - tie ODOZGORA NIZ CELA TERITORIJA PISHUVAAT "GRCIJA".  Eve edna druga mapa na koja MNOGU UBAVO SE GLEDA A I PISHUVA KOJA TERITORIJA PRIPAGALA NA ANTICHKA "GRCIJA" iako ne postoela takva drzava neli??? http://www.gracegalleries.com/images/GR/GR123.jpg - http://www.gracegalleries.com/images/GR/GR123.jpg ISTO TAKA NIKADE NE JA PISHUVA MAKEDONIJA KAKO DEL OD "ANCIENT GREECE" GR123 - P. LAPIE “Grece Ancienne.” Paris. 1812. Colored. 9X12. Fine map of the Grecian Archipelago and the Aegean Sea with all the islands as they were known in ancient times. Locates Athens and the islands of Rhodes, Scarpanto (Carpathus), Icaria, Lemnos, Samothrace, Lesbos, Samos & Crete. The title in lower left is placed at the top of a pillared building which has a Grecian statue inset between the columns. Engraved by J.B.M. Chamouin the map was published under the direction of Capt. Pierre Lapie (1777-1850) geographer to King Louis XVIII, and topographer to the French War Department, and issued in “Atlas Complet Du Precis De La Geographie Universelle” by Conrad Malte-Brun (1775-1826) in Paris. 1812. Постирано од: orlov Датум на внесување: 15.Ноември.2007 во 23:13 Книгата се промовираше на 02.11.2007 година. Тоа не значи дека треба да престанеме со трагање по сопствените корени. Значи, заеднички во поход, за да се запознаеме самите себе. ------------- ,,СЕКОГАШ ВО СЛУЖБА НА ТАТКОВИНАТА,,               Постирано од: borec Датум на внесување: 21.Ноември.2007 во 17:30 EVE USHTE NEKOLKU VAZNI KARTI SO (ZA) MAKEDONIJA: * Makedonia pred vremeto na"Hrista" http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/mediterraneansea_b.c._1884.jpg - http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/mediterraneansea_b.c._1884.jpg * Ethnicki grupi i jazici na Balkanot PRED Balkanskata vojna i podelbata 1912-1918 http://faq.macedonia.org/images/bigmkd2.jpg - Ethnic Groups and language map of the Balkan Penninsula before the war 1912-18 (Völker and Sprachenkarte der Balkan-Halbinsel vor den Krieg 1912-18) * Teritorialno modificiranje na Balkanot - predlogot na London (Maj 1913) i izvrsheniot vo Buk*resht (Avgust 1913) Tuka moze da zabelezite deka predlogot od London e osnovan vrz Antichkite granici na Makedonija (kako sto se prikazani vo prvata mapa 'pred Hrista") - kade sto ja NEMA VOOPSHTO ALBANIJA, a Makedonija izleguva duri na Jadran so Apolonia i zazema del od denesno Kosovo (znachi i Kosovo e NASHE)  http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/balkan_modifications_1914.jpg - Territorial Modifications in the Balkans - Conference of London [May 1913] and Treaty of Bukarest [August 1913]. "Report of the International Commission To Inquire into the Causes and Conduct of the Balkan Wars" 1914. Great Britain. Naval Intelligence Division, Geographical Handbook Series: Jugoslavia, Volume II, 1944. Постирано од: Јабанџиче Датум на внесување: 27.Ноември.2007 во 11:01 Напред брака само! ------------- One life,one love! M A C E D O N I A Постирано од: Biljana:) Датум на внесување: 04.Декември.2007 во 02:48 Aman do koga ke ne zamaraat vejke. Sme postoele, postoime i ke postoime, a grci ili nekoja poranesna nepoznata drzava grcija, ne se sejkavam deka postoi vakvo nesto.   Neka pravat site sto sakaat, nas i naseto ime Makedonija ne spomnuvaat nasekade. Pr: BIBLIJATA najstara kniga vo koja samo nie i naseto ime sme spomnati. Pisete na google Makedonija vo biblijata......................   http://www.sweetim.com/s.asp?im=gen&ref=10">   Videte sami !!!!!!!! Постирано од: tafa Датум на внесување: 07.Декември.2007 во 12:36 Odlicna tema i odlicni linkovi.bravo Постирано од: Такламакан Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 13:50 "Тоя който знае що е почит и тръгва от себе си, склонен е да почита и другите. Останалото е заблуда." Заблуда, като например, че едно племе е най-старо в света. По-старо от всички останали.. Като чета подобни заглавия и ме навяват мисли, че има хора дето не почитат себе си и племената, на които са потомци.. ------------- "Всяка земя е родна за смелият, за пристигащите късно остават само костите!" http://taklamakan.myphotoalbum.com/ Постирано од: Boogie Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 14:07 ПА името Македонско не ли ти е доволен доказ,Македонија постои од времето на антиката па до ден денес,исто така и Македонците.Како одеднаш сите сакате Македонци да станете ------------- http://www.TattooArtists.org/boogie" rel="nofollow - Борбата продолжува,поробениот за слобода а слободниот за совршенство Постирано од: diogenskopje Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 14:18 ..e stvarno veke preku taska balabanova,nie ne samo sto sme najstar narod...nie sme direktni predoci na Adam i Eva..i nivnite "fini" decki..Avel i pogotovo Kain....ma ne ne...nie sme postari i od niv...bibliski narod ..bibliska zemja?...ma kako da ne..postari sme nie i od biblijata...luge nie sme od Mars..Mars..ma kakov Mars...bugarite se od Mars..nie sme druga galaksija...a na zemjata dojdovme kako avtostoperi..citajki go pritoa vodicot na Spenser Dzonson  ------------- When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did, in his sleep. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." Постирано од: Такламакан Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 14:18 Boogie напиша: ПА името Македонско не ли ти е доволен доказ,Македонија постои од времето на антиката па до ден денес,исто така и Македонците.Како одеднаш сите сакате Македонци да станете Слушай какво, Буге, името Македонски е било погребано със смъртта на една Империя, тогавашна политика на елините.. Тези, които почитат своето племе и други племена, както и наследниците им му вдъхнаха живот отново, за да възвърнат духа на войните, населяващи Балканският полуостров. А между войни, винаги има неписани правила. Ти ако беше войн, до сега да си мъртъв. И името и рода ти. За непочит. Тъжно, но факт. ------------- "Всяка земя е родна за смелият, за пристигащите късно остават само костите!" http://taklamakan.myphotoalbum.com/ Постирано од: Boogie Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 14:24 Не те разбирам,погледни картите низ Историјата - Македонското име никогаш не било избришано иако многу пробале да го избришат ------------- http://www.TattooArtists.org/boogie" rel="nofollow - Борбата продолжува,поробениот за слобода а слободниот за совршенство Постирано од: Такламакан Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 14:32 Boogie напиша: Не те разбирам,погледни картите низ Историјата - Македонското име никогаш не било избришано иако многу пробале да го избришат А някога питал ли си се защо и каква е причината? ------------- "Всяка земя е родна за смелият, за пристигащите късно остават само костите!" http://taklamakan.myphotoalbum.com/ Постирано од: Boogie Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 14:34 Каква причина?ЗА постоењето на Македонија или За пробите на бришење на Македонија.КАко и да е денес Македонија постои со историја возобновена од Александар и неговите предци ------------- http://www.TattooArtists.org/boogie" rel="nofollow - Борбата продолжува,поробениот за слобода а слободниот за совршенство Постирано од: Boogie Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 14:40 НЕ УМИРА МАКЕДОНСКАТА НАЦИЈА ТОЛКУ ЛЕСНО СО ТОЛКУ ПИШАНИ ДОКАЗИ ------------- http://www.TattooArtists.org/boogie" rel="nofollow - Борбата продолжува,поробениот за слобода а слободниот за совршенство Постирано од: Такламакан Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 14:46 Boogie напиша: Каква причина?ЗА постоењето на Македонија или За пробите на бришење на Македонија.КАко и да е денес Македонија постои со историја возобновена од Александар и неговите предци Причината е в твоето и моето ДНК, например.. Там са и фактите. ------------- "Всяка земя е родна за смелият, за пристигащите късно остават само костите!" http://taklamakan.myphotoalbum.com/ Постирано од: Boogie Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 14:49 ПА нормално дека у ДНКто се фактите само незнам зошто некои Бугари идат против ДНКто кога немаат никаква врска со оригиналните Бугари - ТуркоМонголите. Македонскиот народ преживеал како Македонец и сеуште живее на територија на Македонија како Македонец ------------- http://www.TattooArtists.org/boogie" rel="nofollow - Борбата продолжува,поробениот за слобода а слободниот за совршенство Постирано од: Такламакан Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 14:52 Boogie напиша: ПА нормално дека у ДНКто се фактите само незнам зошто некои Бугари идат против ДНКто кога немаат никаква врска со оригиналните Бугари - ТуркоМонголите.Македонскиот народ преживеал како Македонец и сеуште живее на територија на Македонија како Македонец И това вече може да докаже един ДНК тест, не се тревожи, че в основата на тревогите стои само страха. ДНК тестът уточнява какви са ти корените, каква кръв имаш, преселник ли си и ако да - откъде и много други неща.. ------------- "Всяка земя е родна за смелият, за пристигащите късно остават само костите!" http://taklamakan.myphotoalbum.com/ Постирано од: Boogie Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 14:54 Нашите научници направиа ДНК тестови и докажаа дека не се Македонците од субсахарската раса.Тоа не го знаеше Е сега да направите вие Бугарите ДНК анализа на вашиот род па да видиме од што толку се плашите ------------- http://www.TattooArtists.org/boogie" rel="nofollow - Борбата продолжува,поробениот за слобода а слободниот за совршенство Постирано од: Такламакан Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 14:59 Boogie напиша: Нашите научници направиа ДНК тестови и докажаа дека не се Македонците од субсахарската раса.Тоа не го знаешеЕ сега да направите вие Бугарите ДНК анализа на вашиот род па да видиме од што толку се плашите Говори ми с факти, мой човек. Не с приказки. ------------- "Всяка земя е родна за смелият, за пристигащите късно остават само костите!" http://taklamakan.myphotoalbum.com/ Постирано од: Boogie Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 15:10 http://217.16.70.245/?pBroj=1005&stID=5213&pR=3 - ИМА ФАКТИ,ЧИТАЈ И ПЛАЧИ Istra`uva~ite dojdoa do slednite zaklu~oci: · Makedoncite ne se srodni so geografski bliskite Grci, koi ne pripa|aat na #postarata# mediteranska osnova. · Grcite imaat zna~itelna srodnost so pod-saharskiot (etiopski) narod, koj gi razdeluva od drugite mediteranski grupi.   Izgleda deka Genetikata, pokraj samata istorija, }e mo`e poto~no da go rasvetli potekloto na raznite narodi koi go naseluvale i seu{te go naseluvaat mediteranskoto korito. Istra`uva~i od Oddelot za imunologija i molekularna biologija, H. 12 de Oktubre, na Univerzitetot Komplutens, od Madrid, [panija, i Ustanovata za laboratorisko ispituvawe na tkivata i krvna transfuzija, od Skopje, Republika Makedonija, go sprovedoa prvoto genetsko istra`uvawe vrz Makedonci i gi sporedija so drugite mediteranski naselenija. Deset istra`uva~i (Arneiz-Vilena A, Dimitrovski K, Pa~o A, Moskoso J, Gomez-Kasado E, Silvera-Redondo C, Varela P, Blagoevska M, Zdravkovska V, i Martinez Laso J.) bea vklu~eni vo istra`uvaweto, ~ija cel be{e #da go otkrie soodvetniot pridones na Makedoncite i Grcite vo dene{niot genetski vlog me|u mediteranskite narodi#, i za taa #cel prv pat me|u Makedoncite bea prou~eni HLA (Antigeni od ~ove~ki beli krvni kletki) klasa 1 i klasa 2 DNK (Dezoksinukleinska kiselina)#. Studijata #HLA geni kaj Makedoncite i pod-saharskoto poteklo na Grcite# e pretstavena vo danskoto medicinsko spisanie #Ti{ju Antixens#, od fevruari 2001 godina, kniga 57, izdanie 2, stranici 118-127. Sekoj {to }e ja poseti internet stranata www.blackwellmunksgaard.com/tissueantigens (vrskata mo`e da se dobie i preku www.historyofmacedonia.org ) mo`e da go pro~ita sledniot Pregled: HLA aleli (del od hromozomite) se odredeni vo poedinci od Republika Makedonija so DNK kodirawe i poreduvawe. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ za~estenost na alelite i prodol`en haplotip za prv pat se odredeni i rezultatite sporedeni so tie na drugite Mediteranci, posebno so nivnite sosedi-Grcite. Genetska oddale~enost, dendrogrami za spojuvawe na sosedite i analiza na sli~nosta se sprovedeni. Slednive zaklu~oci se dobieni: 1) Makedoncite pripa|aat na #postarata# mediteranska osnova, kako Iberijancite (vklu~uvaj}i gi i Baskite), severno Afrikancite, Italijancite, Francuzite, Kritjanite, Evreite, Libancite, Turcite (Anatolijanci), Armenci i Iranci; 2) Makedoncite ne se srodni so geografski bliskite Grci, koi ne pripa|aat na #postarata# mediteranska osnova; 3) Grcite imaat zna~itelna srodnost so pod-saharskiot (etiopski) narod, koj gi razdeluva od drugite mediteranski grupi. I Grcite i Etiopjanite imaat posebna sli~nost na DRB1 aleli, kako {to se *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 i *1310. Genetskata oddale~enost e pomala pome|u Grcite i Etiopjanite/pod-saharskite grupi otkolku so koja i da e druga mediteranska grupa,  i kone~no, Grcite se zbieni so drugite Etiopjani/pod-Saharci vo dendrogrami za spojuvawe na sosedite i analiza na sli~nosta. Vremenskata opredelenost koga ovie me|uvrski se slu~ile e vo drevnosta, no ne e sigurna, i mo`e da e bliska so rasseluvaweto na egipetsko-etiopskiot narod koj `iveel vo faraonski Egipet.# Studijata gi koriste{e slednite primeroci za svojata presmetka: 172 nesrodni etni~ki Makedonci od Skopje; 98 Marokanci; 98 Berberi; 94 marokanski Evrei; 176 [panci; 80 Baski; 228 Portugalci; 179 Francuzi; 102 Al`irci; 91 Sardinci; 284 Italijanci; 80 a{kenaziski Evrei; 80 ne-a{kenaziski Evrei; 135 Kritjani; 85 Grci od Egejot; 95 Grci od Atika; 101 Grk od Kipar; 59 Libanci od Niha el [uf; 93 Libanci od Kafar Zubian; 100 Iranci; 228 Turci; 105 Armenci; 101 Egipjanec od Siva; 83 Oromonci; 98 Amharanci; 38 Fulanci; 39 Rimeibanci; 42 Mosijanci; 77 Sani (Bu{meni); 192 Senegalci; i 86 crnci od Ju`na Afrika. Rezultatite od Studijata doveduvaat do nekolku interesni zaklu~oci. Kako prvo, se poka`uva deka #Makedoncite se srodni so drugite Mediterijanci i ne poka`uvaat bliska srodnost so Grcite#; me|utoa Makedoncite imaat bliska srodnost so Kritjanite. #Ova#, zaklu~uvaat istra`uva~ite, #ja potkrepuva teorijata deka Makedoncite se eden od najdrevnite narodi koj postoi na Balkanot, izgleda dolgo pred doa|aweto na mikenskite Grci okolu 2.000 godini pred novata era#. Istra`uva~ite bea iznenadeni da otkrijat deka #pri~inata zo{to Grcite ne poka`aa srodnost so drugite prou~eni Mediteranci#,  e bidej}i Grcite imaat #genetska srodnost so pod-saharskite etni~ki grupi koi sega `iveat vo Etiopija, Sudan i Zapadna Afrika (Burkina-Faso). ------------- http://www.TattooArtists.org/boogie" rel="nofollow - Борбата продолжува,поробениот за слобода а слободниот за совршенство Постирано од: Такламакан Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 15:14 Айде сега кажи ми тези заклиучения на база на колко ДНК анализа са? Дай списъкът да го видим и македонският, и гръцкият и тоя от остров Крит. Пусни да видим кои учени са стигнали до тези изводи и кои са хората, които са изследвани? ------------- "Всяка земя е родна за смелият, за пристигащите късно остават само костите!" http://taklamakan.myphotoalbum.com/ Постирано од: diogenskopje Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 15:17 ..se skinav od smeenje..da ne postoevte ke trebase da ve izmislime  ------------- When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did, in his sleep. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." Постирано од: Boogie Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 15:18 Па кликни погоре има линкСЕ е докажано не се секирај ------------- http://www.TattooArtists.org/boogie" rel="nofollow - Борбата продолжува,поробениот за слобода а слободниот за совршенство Постирано од: Такламакан Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 15:23 Не ви ги читам ониа редове дека са имената на човеците де са си дали ДНК-то, от тея де днес се наричат македонци и се смятат за техни наследници и наследници на Александър Макденски. ------------- "Всяка земя е родна за смелият, за пристигащите късно остават само костите!" http://taklamakan.myphotoalbum.com/ Постирано од: Boogie Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 15:25 Земано е рандом днк за да не настане после забуна дека е наместено од само оние 10 души антички Македонци кои постојат и ден денес ------------- http://www.TattooArtists.org/boogie" rel="nofollow - Борбата продолжува,поробениот за слобода а слободниот за совршенство Постирано од: Такламакан Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 15:28 Boogie напиша: Земано е рандом днк за да не настане после забуна дека е наместено од само оние 10 души антички Македонци кои постојат и ден денес Много удобно звучи.. По политически! ------------- "Всяка земя е родна за смелият, за пристигащите късно остават само костите!" http://taklamakan.myphotoalbum.com/ Постирано од: kultuzin Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 15:28 A so ne razbiram Bugarski ke si umram od maka. Od Ona malce so go razbrav,se zgaziv od smeenje. Komsiite ni se zakon. Ne im e lesno,zamisli nie da nemavme Istorija,Jazik ,Muzika. Im gi razbiram makite. Постирано од: Такламакан Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 15:30 kultuzin напиша: A so ne razbiram Bugarski ke si umram od maka. Od Ona malce so go razbrav,se zgaziv od smeenje. Komsiite ni se zakon. Ne im e lesno,zamisli nie da nemavme Istorija,Jazik ,Muzika. Im gi razbiram makite. Комшия е турска дума. За кои "комшии" става въпрос? ------------- "Всяка земя е родна за смелият, за пристигащите късно остават само костите!" http://taklamakan.myphotoalbum.com/ Постирано од: kultuzin Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 15:47 Такламакан напиша: kultuzin напиша: A so ne razbiram Bugarski ke si umram od maka. Od Ona malce so go razbrav,se zgaziv od smeenje. Komsiite ni se zakon. Ne im e lesno,zamisli nie da nemavme Istorija,Jazik ,Muzika. Im gi razbiram makite. Комшия е турска дума. За кои "комшии" става въпрос? Ti najde da zboris, ti kazi eden Bugarski zbor sto ne se koristi vo drugi jazici. Mozebi ,mersi? Постирано од: borec Датум на внесување: 10.Декември.2007 во 20:07 Boogie напиша: Нашите научници направиа ДНК тестови и докажаа дека не се Македонците од субсахарската раса.Тоа не го знаеше Е сега да направите вие Бугарите ДНК анализа на вашиот род па да видиме од што толку се плашите     I TIE IMAAT NAPRAVENO - NE SE SEKIRAJ!!!!   CHEK' KE GO NAJDAM TOJ TEXT I KE GO POSTIRAM!!!!'     Испечати | Затвори го прозорот Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com Copyright ©2001-2011 Web Wiz Ltd. - http://www.webwiz.co.uk