Грците однесени од виорот??????

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URL: http://forum.idividi.com.mk/forum_posts.asp?TID=11084
Датум на принтање: 27.Јануари.2025 во 13:32
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Тема: Грците однесени од виорот??????

Постирано од: Vladimir88
Наслов: Грците однесени од виорот??????
Датум на внесување: 23.Декември.2007 во 23:24

Инаку, Њујорк Тајмс од 1880 г. ни дава делумна слика за хеленизмот:

Коментари:

Постирано од: Vladimir88
Датум на внесување: 23.Декември.2007 во 23:40

Го напишав и името на горенаведениот професор и на Википедија и најдов нешто занимливо

Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer
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Portrait of Fallmerayer (Staatsarchiv Nürnberg).
Portrait of Fallmerayer (Staatsarchiv Nürnberg).

Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer (10 December 1790 – 26 April 1861) was an Tyrolean traveller, journalist, politician and historian, best known for his travel writings and for his racist and antihellenic theories concerning the racial origins of the Greeks of his era.

Following the publication of his Trebizond study, Fallmerayer devoted his scholarly activities to another Greek-speaking region of the Middle Ages, namely, the Morea. In particular, he developed his theory that the ancient, "Hellenic," population of the south Balkans had been replaced during the Migration Period by Slavic peoples. A similar idea had already been proposed by the British traveler William Martin Leake, but Fallmerayer turned it into a theory, which he advocated with characteristic zeal.

he race of the Hellenes has been wiped out in Europe. Physical beauty, intellectual brilliance, innate harmony and simplicity, art, competition, city, village, the splendour of column and temple — indeed, even the name has disappeared from the surface of the Greek continent.... Not the slightest drop of undiluted Hellenic blood flows in the veins of the Christian population of present-day Greece.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Philipp_Fallmerayer

Постирано од: borec
Датум на внесување: 24.Декември.2007 во 07:40

Dobra tema - megutoa AKO seto ova se povrze i so predhodnite SLICHNI Antichki zapisi (pochetocite na Rimskata imperija) koga Piso za "Grcite" rekol;

Changes in the ethnic composition of Greek city-states are illustrated by the comments about the case of Piso. Piso, who had been the recipient of an unhelpful decision by a vote of the Athenian city assembly,

"made a violent speech in which he said that the latter-day Athenians had no right to identify themselves with the great Athenians of the days of Pericles, Demosthenes, Aeschylus, and Plato. The ancient Athenians had been extirpated by repeated wars and massacres and these were mere mongrels, degenerates, and the descendants of slaves. He said that any Roman who flattered them as if they were the legitimate heirs of those ancient heroes was lowering the dignity of the Roman name."

....moze da se zakluchi deka IMALO ISTOMISLENICI I PRED Slovenskata invazija (sto duri i ovoj period e kontradiktoren vo odnos na gore interpretiraniot "Slovenizam").

Taka da spored mene NE E vo prashanje KOGA Grchkata "nacija" se smenila, tuku DALI VOOPSHTO POSTOELA, ili e samo MITOLOGIJA, vprochem kako i SE ostanato "Grchko"???

Постирано од: Vladimir88
Датум на внесување: 24.Декември.2007 во 08:19

The ancient Athenians had been extirpated by repeated wars and massacres and these were mere mongrels, degenerates, and the descendants of slaves

Можеш ли да ми дадеш година кога е ова кажано.
Колку што се сеќавам кога учев по историја откако Персеј(последниот крал на Македонија),ќе ја изгуби битката против Римската Империја нели ќе го заробат и него и неговата фамилија и ќе го оковаат во синџири и ќе го донесат во Рим.Во Рим ќе му залепат една сочна етикета.

Склавин(роб, (slave)).

Постирано од: borec
Датум на внесување: 24.Декември.2007 во 08:54

Vladimir88 напиша:

The ancient Athenians had been extirpated by repeated wars and massacres and these were mere mongrels, degenerates, and the descendants of slaves

Ova beshe SAMO kako analiza-izvadok od text kade sto NE SE kazuva godinata - megutoa SPORED NAPISHANOTO JAS ZAKLUCHIV DEKA SE RABOTI ZA POCHETOCITE NA RIMSKATA IMPERIJA.

Za da go porvrdam toa moe mislenje POBARAV informacii za negoviot zivot i delo, SPORED koe ke go odredam TOCHNIOT period na ovaa izjava.

Vakvi informacii ima segde, ama eve na brzinka OVAA od Wikipedija (sto e izvadena od Enciklopedija Britanika i veli vaka;

"Gaius Calpurnius Piso was a Roman senator in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_century - 1st century . He was the focal figure in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisonian_conspiracy - Pisonian Conspiracy of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/65 - 65 A.D., the most famous and wide-ranging plot against the throne of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero - Emperor Nero ."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaius_Calpurnius_Piso - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaius_Calpurnius_Piso

Постирано од: Vladimir88
Датум на внесување: 24.Декември.2007 во 09:02

Soon Rome and Perseus went to war in the Third Macedonian War (171-168 BC)

Ova e godinata na tretata makedonska vojna pomegu Persej i Rim.Ako dobro analiziras on ova sto go kazal go kazal 65 godini posle smrta na Isus ili A.D.

A bitkava sto se slucila bila B.C.(Before Christ).

E sega vidi ti kolkav period e toa i razmisli sto moze da se sluci za tolkav period i sto mislis sto sakam da kazam

Постирано од: borec
Датум на внесување: 24.Декември.2007 во 09:10

Neznam?????

Aj kazi, pa ke prodolzam posle.

Постирано од: Vladimir88
Датум на внесување: 24.Декември.2007 во 09:47

borec напиша:

Neznam?????

Aj kazi, pa ke prodolzam posle.

Pa ova prvoto sto go postirase, toa e podatok koj datira mnogu poodamna od ona sto go kazal ovoj mojov naucnik(komplicirano mu e imeto).

Veke vo tvojot tekst Piso vika deka Naslednicite na Platon,Demostenij i.t.n. bile "iscisteni" preku vojna i.t.n. i deka tie sto se denes(znaci zitelite sto ziveat vo 65 A.D.) se potomci na "slaves".Veke kazav koga go zarobile Persej i koga go odnele vo Rim kakva etiketa mu zalepile (okovan vo sindziri) na nego a podocna i na makedoncite.

Znaci ova e prviot bran na cistenje na naslednicite na Platon i.t.n. i podocna celoto naselenie bilo "zameneto" so antickite makedonci ili "sklavini"...(robovi).

E sega jas ona sto go postirav kazuva za preselbata na slovenite.Tuka pa kazuva ovoj naucnikov deka vo 747 godina ima "terrible pestilence" i celata grcka populacija bila iscistena i na nivno mesto vo 750 godina dosle i slovenite.E sega spored nasata istorija slovenite se naselile samo do granicite na egejot ,podole ne otisle.

Profesorov go vika sosem sprotivnoto.

I vo dvata teksta , dvata profesora, teoricari ne vikaat deka pokraj grckoto i naselenieto vo makedonskoto kralstvo stradalo vika samo grckoto...

Znaci oni veke vo prviot bran se iscisteni mesto niv doagame nie.........sklavinite ili decendants of the slaves.

Vo 747 A.D. ima cuma i toa naselenie(nie) sto bilo tamu bilo iscisteno od cumata i slovenite navlegle uste podlaboko.

Slovenite sakam da kazam duri i da imalo preselbi pak nie sme naslednici na Makedonskoto kralstvo zosto nie sme "pola-pola"

I vo dvata teksta avtorite vikaat deka nemalo cuma vo Makedonija i vo nejzinite geografski,etnicki i bla bla bla granici tuku vikaat deka imalo vo Grcija vrz grckoto naselenie...

Znaci ke ispadne deka denesnive grci nemaat G od antickite grci tuku se cisti sloveni i etiopijani(mesavina).

Dobra e teorijava

Постирано од: antonijo
Датум на внесување: 24.Декември.2007 во 10:55

dobriste samo prodolzete....toa site go znaeme samo treba nekoj da ne soedini da i pak da osvoime atina kako nasite preci koga sakale si ja osvojuvale ne grci atinjanite se picki vo dusa stojat golemi sili anglija amerika pozadi niv zatoa se tolku silni.od se srce se nadeva eden den solun ke bide pak nas go cekame covekot koj ke ne sobere pak da vojuvame so starijot neprijatel toa ke bide za nekoja godina veruvajte

Постирано од: borec
Датум на внесување: 24.Декември.2007 во 15:26

Ne sum bash siguren za imeto Sloven, Slav dali e isto sto i Sclavin ili dali se toa ISTI ili razlichni tolkuvanja - na primer Sloven, Slav imenuvani od samite sebe a Sclavin imenuvani od drug (Romanite). Megutoa EDNO SIGURNO ZNAM deka toa bila zelbata na "Grcite"da ne imenuvaat i predstavat kako slugi vo svetot, kako ODMAZDA na site onie sto TIE IM SLUZELE.

Drugo, TOCHNO e toa deka "Grcite" NEMAAT ni G od Antichkite "Grci" - megutoa jas NEMOZAM DA NAJDAM AMA NIEDNA LOGICHNA POVRZANOST DEKA TIE "GRCI" VOOPSHTO POSTOELE KAKO NACIJA ILI NAROD. Mnogu prochitani textovi za niv i razgovori po forumi so niv me navele do OVA moe mislenje, megu koi i ovie;

- Na nivna web-strana za nivnta "Athens History" - pishuva vaka;

Prehistoric Athens (4,000 – 1,600 BC)

Athens Before History (5000-1500)

http://www.anagnosis.gr/index.php?pageID=220&la=eng - http://www.anagnosis.gr/index.php?pageID=220&la=eng

At the beginning of the second millennium B.C. Greek-speaking people, sometimes called Achaeans, first entered Greece from the north. The Athenians always distinguished themselves from non-Greek-speaking people, whom they usually referred to as Pelasgians. It is not known whether they massacred them, drove them out, or subjugated them. Traces of their non-Hellenic tongue are still to be found in many of the topographical names of Attica. Even the name 'Athens' itself does not appear to be Greek. Topographical names with the forms '-ssos' and '-ttos', such as Kifissos, Ilissos, Ardettos, Lykabettos and Hymettos, are also believed to belong to the pre-Greek language once spoken in Attica. This extensive adoption of existing topographical names by the Greek-speaking incomers, together with later claims by the Athenians to represent the indigenous inhabitants of the area, suggests that in Attica the invaders did not drive out or massacre their predecessors, but cohabited with them.

Megu drugoto, mene mi e interesen pochetokot, kade veli deka; Na pochetokot od vtorata milenija PNE Grchki-zboruvahkiot narod, ponekokash narekuvan Achaeans, za prv pat vlegoa vo Grcija od Sever. Pa sega tuka se prashuvam; Kako moze "Grcki" veke da zboruvaat USHTE NE VLEZENI VO "GRCIJA" (i koja e taa Grcija bez "Grci") a AKO VEKE ZBORUVALE GRCHKI sto i den denes e isti so togashniot (chudo nekoe pak) OD KOJA ZEMJA DOSHLE STO VEKE GO ZBORUVALA OVOJ "GRCHKI"JAZIK?????

Ponatamu veli; Athinjanite sekogash pravele razlika od ne zboruvachite na Grchki jazik, od koi tie chestopati gi imenuvale kako Pelasgians. Ne e poznato sto se luchilo so niv, dali gi masakrirale, gi izbrkale ili gi ugnetile. Tuka si kazuvaat deka NE SE prvite sto doshle na toj prostor kako sto se pravat a i shiroko poznato e deka Pela-zgite se Makedonsko pleme. Vprochem kako i Pela-goncite, sprema koi podocna bila i imenuvana Makedonskata predstolnina Pela.

Vo prodolzenie od nivnata istorija pishuva za;

Hellenistic Athens

Athens Under the Macedonians (339-168)

Despite the benefits of the peace imposed by the Macedonians, the call of freedom proved irresistible, and on Alexander's early death in June 323 B.C. the southern Greeks, including the Athenians, rebelled against Macedonian rule. Feeling against the Northerners was so strong in Athens that Aristotle considered it prudent to retire to Chalkis. Under the leadership of Leosthenes, the rebels forced Antipater to retire Lamia, where he was besieged. During the course of siege operations Leosthenes was killed, and reinforcements from Macedonia forced the lifting of the siege. The Macedonian fleet defeated the Athenians at Abydos and Amorgos; while the southern Greeks decisively defeated in battle on land by Antipater and Krateros at Kranon in Thessaly in August 322. The future of Athens and all of southern Greece was to remain at the mercy of the vagaries of Macedonian politics.

Znachi si priznavaat deka BILE pod Makedonska okupacija (pod Makedonci, znachi narod), i deka smrtta na Alexandar ja ISKORISTILE za OSLOBODUVANJE od Makedoncite.

Isto taka, vo prodolzenie, MNOGU INTERESEN PODATOK E I POPISOT NAPRAVEN POSLE SMRTTA NA ALEXANDAR na naselenieto na Athens;

"Demetrios held a census of the population, which revealed that at that time there were 21,000 citizens, 10,000 foreign residents and 400,000 slaves. No one can explain the huge number of slaves, even taking into account the numbers employed at Laurion, and most authorities believe his assessment to have been simply inaccurate."

Kade se veli deka, zitelite sto ja sochinuvale Athina bil sostaven od; 21,000 gragjani, 10,000 stranski drzavjani i 400,000 SLUGI????? Sto kako nadopolnuvanje na PREDHODNATA diskusija USHTE POVEKE se prodlabochuva (vraka nanazad POTEKLOTO NA "GRCITE") znachi USHTE ZA VREME NA ALEXANDAR tie bile SOSTAV OD SLUGI-ETHIOPJANI (preovladuvajki so brojkata od 400,000 NAPREMA SAMO 25,000 gragjani.

Taka da sega PAK se postavuva prashanjeto DALI toa odenje nanazad nekogas prestanuva so dokaz deka Classic-Greeks NEKOGASH POSTOELE????

Kako odgovor na ovaa moe mislenje DEKA NE POSTOELE KLASICHNI-GRCI tuku toa bile DRUGI LUGE najverojatno PAK nekoe Makedonsko pleme - povrzav nekolku raboti;

Od etimologija na zborot "Greece";

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Greek - Greek http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Greek"> http://www.etymonline.com/graphics/dictionary.gif">

"O.E. Crecas (pl.), early Gmc. borrowing from L. Græci "the Hellenes," from Gk. Grakoi. Aristotle, who was the first to use Graikhos as equivalent to Hellenes ("Meteorologica" I.xiv) wrote that it was the name originally used by Illyrians for the Dorians in Epirus, from Graii, native name of the people of Epirus." Spored prvite zapishani podatoci, zborot Grci bil prv pat UPOTREBEN od Aristotel za imenuvanje na Grcite-Grci. Tuka se postavuva prashanjeto; Kako moze DURI togash da pochnat da go koristat TOA IME za niv, PA NELI CLASSIC-GREEK postoel ushte PRED vremeto na Aristotel???? голема%20насмевка Megutoa na ova SE SETIL i nekoj drug pred mene - PA ZATOA "GRCITE" posle 1830 god. posle formiranjeto na drzava "Grcija" za prv pat , go promenuva ovoj zapis za da ODGOVARA NA NIVNATA PRIKAZNA ZA CLASSIK-GREECE (vo dolnoto prodolzenie e taa verzija).

"But a modern theory (put forth by Ger. classical historian Georg Busolt, 1850-1920), derives it from Graikhos "inhabitant of Graia" (lit. "gray"), a town on the coast of Boeotia, which was the name given by the Romans to all Greeks, originally to the Gk. colonists from Graia who helped found Cumae (9c. B.C.E.), the important city in southern Italy where the Latins first encountered Greeks. It was reborrowed in this general sense by the Greeks. Meaning "unintelligible speech, gibberish" is from 1600. Meaning "Greek letter fraternity member" is student slang, 1900." E sega tuka OVAA PRIKAZNA veli deka TOA IME go dobile od Rimjanite, spored naselenieto, kolonisti od gradot Graia (a koj i kade e toj Grad?? I ako veke imale grad po nivno ime NEMALO POTEBA Rimjanite da gi imenuvaat, neli??) sto doshle (SPECIJALNO za toa) da im "pomognat" vo izgradbata na gradot Cumae, duri vo 9-ti Vek PNE. Znachi sega se poklopuva so prikaznata za Classik-Greece, megutoa zaboravaat deka TIE VEKE KAZAA DEKA DOSHLE VO "GRCIJA" od Sever a ne od Jug. Ili pak mozebi ja preskoknale "Grcija" prvin, otishle vo Italija da im "pomognat" pa okoga TIE KI KRSTILE se vratile vo "Grcija" i si rekle " E, sega koga mozevme cel grad da napravime za edna Clasichna-Grcija NE E PROBLEM, normalno da funkcioniraat kako grad-drzavi samo de.

SE IZMORIV DURI OD OVIE NIVNI GLUPOSTI - pa nema text na koj NE MU TREBAAT ANALIZI, site se polni so gluposti i samo gluposti.....

"It was subtle of God to learn Greek when he wished to become an author -- and not to learn it better." [Nietzsche, "Beyond Good and Evil," 1886]" Ovde si laskaat SAMI NA SEBE, kako protiv odbrana na Rimjanskata UVREDA za nivniot jazik.

Greek gift is from "Æneid," II.49: "timeo Danaos et dona ferentes." The Gmc. languages originally borrowed the word with an initial -k- sound (cf. O.H.G. Chrech, Goth. Kreks), which was probably their initial sound closest to the Latin -g- at the time; the word was later refashioned.

Ima i mnogu drugi informacii KOI GO DOKAZUVAAT NIVNOTO IZMISLENO POSTOENJE - t.e tie postoele MEGUTOA NIVNOTO POTEKLO NE E CARSKO KAKO STO SI SE NAIMENUVAAT - TUKU SE OBICHNI ETHIOPJANSKI SLUGI-ROBOVI, dojdeni na rabota na Mediterijanot, koi po nekoi teorii izbegale od Egipet barajki podobri uslovi ili tretmani za slugi. Makedoncite isto taka bile poznati deka tie NEMALE SLUGI-ROBOVI, tuku luge koi rabotele za niv.

Постирано од: borec
Датум на внесување: 27.Декември.2007 во 10:41

A i sto ke se zamarame so premnogu dokazuvanje nanazad 5000 + godini, koga vo OVOJ TEXT mnogu ubavo si pishuva DEKA SE IZMISLENA NACIJA.

Duri si go SLAVAT svoeto izmisleno postoenje vo King's College London.

Thursday 7 - Saturday 9 September 2006

This conference is sponsored by the Centre for Hellenic Studies and the Department of Byzantine & Modern Greek Studies, King's College London, and the Institute for Neohellenic Research.

Greece was among the first of the 'new' nation-states in Europe to win full statehood in the nineteenth century (1832). This conference sets out to investigate the ideological concepts underpinning the processes of nation-building and state formation during the century that began with Rigas' constitution and map of an imaginary republic (1797) and ended with the celebration of the first modern Olympic Games in Athens (1896).

The conference will therefore focus on the emergence, contestation, and consolidation, during that period, of a national identity at once 'modern' and 'Greek.' Participants will be invited to situate these developments within the theoretical context of current debates about modern nations and nationalism, and particularly about the role of the past in the formation of national conscious

ZNACHI MEGU PRVITE KREIRANA NACIJA DA OSVOI CELOSEN REPUBLICHKI STATUS VO 19 Vek.

Posle ova se postavuva prashanjeto KOJA E SLEDNATA VESHTACHKA KREACIJA NA RED????

Kosovo+????

http://www.kcl.ac.uk/schools/humanities/hrc/chs/confs/making.html - http://www.kcl.ac.uk/schools/humanities/hrc/chs/confs/making.html

Постирано од: borec
Датум на внесување: 27.Декември.2007 во 11:34

Sto e sledno vo "Grchkata" agenda (izvadok od gorenavedeniot text);

• Greeks' perspectives on outsiders (Ottoman v. Western European identities) ѕвезда

Постирано од: borec
Датум на внесување: 27.Декември.2007 во 11:57

Ovie se "grchkite" bogovi;

Na kogo se "krstat' Grcite!

This is from GAYreek books:

Acantha - Greek myth (bisexual)
Achilles - Greek myth (gay)
Apollo - Greek/Roman myth (bisexual)
Cyparissus - Greek myth (gay)
Dionysus - Greek myth (bisexual)
Euryalus - Greek mythology (gay),
Ganymede - Greek/Roman myth (gay)
Hyacinthus - Greek/Roman myth (gay)
Iolaus - Greek myth (bisexual)
Narcissus - Greek/Roman myth (bisexual)
Nisus - Greek mythology (gay)

Постирано од: Vladimir88
Датум на внесување: 27.Декември.2007 во 12:11

borec напиша:

Ovie se "grchkite" bogovi; Na kogo se "krstat' Grcite! This
is from GAYreek books:

Acantha - Greek myth (bisexual)
Achilles - Greek myth (gay)
Apollo - Greek/Roman myth (bisexual)
Cyparissus - Greek myth (gay)
Dionysus - Greek myth (bisexual)
Euryalus - Greek mythology (gay),
Ganymede - Greek/Roman myth (gay)
Hyacinthus - Greek/Roman myth (gay)
Iolaus - Greek myth (bisexual)
Narcissus - Greek/Roman myth (bisexual)
Nisus - Greek mythology (gay)

<o:p> </o:p>

Holy sh*t

Постирано од: borec
Датум на внесување: 27.Декември.2007 во 12:28

Poshto mene mi beshe jasno deka zborot Greece ili Greek NE bilo drzava, nacija ili eden etnikum - ne mi beshe jasno STO BILO TOGASH?? (pa i sega)

Na ova prashanje eden Grk mi odgovori;

In ancient times

1. to speak a greek dialect (attic,ionic,aeolic,doric
pamphylian)

2. to worship the twelve gods
and Zeus the King of them

3. to partcipate in Olympic, Pythic, Isthmic Nemean games and greek religious pagan organizations

4. to read as children greek books
like Iliad,Odyssey,Greek Mythology,Hesiodus,Herodotus
Plato,Xenophon,Aristotle etc

5.t o watch greek tragedies (Aeschylus
Sophocles,Euripides)
and greek comedies (Aristophanes)

Znachi "nacija" bazirana na "membership" - nishto porazlichno od "religioznata" secta Scientology denes.

Постирано од: borec
Датум на внесување: 27.Декември.2007 во 12:58

Vo prodolzenie na Grchkata mitologija - "slikovito" prikazana;

- Gods of Anciant Greek Mythology

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjRyFo6Q53Y&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjRyFo6Q53Y&mode=related&search =

- Goddesses of ancient Greek Mythology

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxynGjncprE&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxynGjncprE&mode=related&search =

- Greek mythology ZEUS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjg7xOcGx0k&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjg7xOcGx0k&mode=related&search =

- Greek gay-Mythology

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ7Sw3QjxrE&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ7Sw3QjxrE&mode=related&search =

Kako zakluchok na predhodno izlozenoto;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2Lhym24RdM&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2Lhym24RdM&mode=related&search =

Постирано од: borec
Датум на внесување: 29.Декември.2007 во 08:40

Greek genes into Greece-like Moroccans Berbers

Friday, 28. December 2007, 14:03:58

For "Greece" with love...
The Myth of Greek Ethnic 'Purity'

DNA Tribes Genetic Ancestry Analysis
http://www.dnatribes.com - www.dnatribes.com

VERRY "CLASSIC" IN DEED!!!!!

Постирано од: Vladimir88
Датум на внесување: 29.Декември.2007 во 08:44

гени..HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks

колку да се знае..Abstract:
HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Re¬public of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, par¬ticularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-join¬ing dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached:
1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Ar¬menians and Iranians,
2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum,
3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiop¬ian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses.
The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displace¬ment of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.

The highly polymorphic HLA system has been validated as useful for distinguishing and/or relating populations (and individuals) in many research studies since the first International HLA Anthropology Workshop (Evian, 1973) and in all the subsequent seven International Workshops. HLA gene frequencies correlate with geographically re¬lated populations.
The existence or absence of gene flow among neighbouring ethnic groups may be assessed with the study of HLA frequencies and the corresponding genetic distances (1,2).
Ancient Macedonians were among the peoples that lived be¬tween northern Greece (Thessaly) and Thrace in the Balkans and were considered by the classical Greeks as ‘‘non-Greek barbarians’’ that could not participate in the Greek Olympic Games (3).
Hero dotus wrote that "Macedonians" were "Dorians" and were never admitted to the Greek community (4).
They did not speak Greek but another language presently unknown and of which only proper names remain; nowadays, they speak a Slavic language (5).
Mace¬donians fought against the Greeks between 357-336 B.C. under King Philip II. They defeated the Greeks at the Battle of Chaironea (338 B.C.). The Macedonian empire extended from the Balkan Penin¬sula to the Himalayas and to North Africa during the reign of Phil¬ip's son, Alexander the Great (6).
Thereafter, Macedonia was conqu¬ered by the Romans and has been disputed in more recent times by Serbs and/or Bulgars. Ottoman Turks controlled Macedonia be¬tween 1380-1912 A.D., and it was integrated into Yugoslavia in 1946. In 1991, after the partition of Yugoslavia, a referendum gave Macedonia its independence.
The present ethnic groups within the country are:
1) Macedonians: 1,279,000;
2) Albanians: 377,000;
3) Turks: 87,000;
4) Serbs: 44,000; and
5) others: 40,000.
The northern¬most region of Greece is also known as Macedonia and this is why Greece has opposed the independence of the country while it bears the same name (7).
Furthermore, we have found that the Greeks did not cluster to¬gether with other Mediterranean populations, including both west¬ern (Iberians, Algerians, Berbers) and eastern (Cretans, Jews, Leb¬anese, Egyptian, Turks-Anatolians) Mediterraneans (8-10).
The aim of the present work is to determine the relative contri¬butions of Macedonians and Greeks to the present-day genetic pool of Mediterranean peoples.
For these purpose, both HLA class I and class IIDNA typings have been studied in Macedonians for the first time.
The genetic relationship of Macedonians and Greeks to other Mediterraneans, including North Africans (Berbers from Agadir and El Jadida areas and Algerians from Algiers), Iberians (Spani¬ards, Basques and Portuguese) and Greeks (from Attica, Aegean and Cyprus) were calculated.
In addition, sub-Saharan and other Africans were compared with all available Mediterranean groups in order to solve the question of the unique Greek HLA profile.

Постирано од: zabegan
Датум на внесување: 04.Јануари.2008 во 17:27

Vladimir88 напиша:

Инаку, Њујорк Тајмс од 1880 г. ни дава делумна слика за хеленизмот:

stotuku stana moj idol Vladimir голема%20насмевка

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размисли пред да напишеш глупост

Постирано од: Vladimir88
Датум на внесување: 04.Јануари.2008 во 17:32

zabegan напиша:

Vladimir88 напиша:

Инаку, Њујорк Тајмс од 1880 г. ни дава делумна слика за хеленизмот:

stotuku stana moj idol Vladimir голема%20насмевка

Зошто

???

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9-eAYHooUo -
Linkin Park - Crawling

Постирано од: zabegan
Датум на внесување: 04.Јануари.2008 во 17:34

pa fala bogu i nie malce da napadneme ne samo da se branime

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размисли пред да напишеш глупост

Постирано од: Vladimir88
Датум на внесување: 04.Јануари.2008 во 17:46

zabegan напиша:

pa fala bogu i nie malce da napadneme ne samo da se branime

За грците има еден тон теории.
Само што на Британците и Американците не им одговара тоа.
(или одговараше можеби веќе им одговара).
Знаеш зошто е тоа така

Поради островите кои ги има Грција претставуваат стратешка позиција за контролирање на Мала Азија,Северна Африка, и Блискиот Исток

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9-eAYHooUo -
Linkin Park - Crawling

Постирано од: borec
Датум на внесување: 09.Јануари.2008 во 19:58

Isn't it strange that even after all warring's from the EU and Human Rights Associations for Greeks bad treatments on non-Greek citizens and NO given even basic rights to all non-Greeks or their RECOGNITION - Greek government don't even budge about it and CONTINUES WITH THEIR TYRANNY on the dally bases even MORE stronger?????

Looking trough their history of been fathers of "democracy" and the meaning of it, I've conclude that THEY ARE DOING "NOTHING WRONG" - according to THEIR original translation and implementation of THEIR "democracy", therefore finding themselves SPREADERS of their "democracy" with its ALL and FULL true meaning and type of society practice.

To BE MORE ACCEPTED TROUGH THE WORLD and WIN PEOLES HEARTS they LIE to the world saying that "DEMOCRACY" means "freedom of the people"

BUT IN REALITY it is OPPOSITE:

Even if we look at the word NOW we will see its meaning DEMO-cracy????

But let's go trough the whole Greek etymology meaning:

democracy
1574, from M.Fr. democratie, from M.L. democratia (13c.), from Gk. demokratia, from demos "common people," originally "district" (see demotic),+ kratos "rule, strength" (see -cracy). Democratic for one of the two major U.S. political parties is 1829, though members of the Democratic-Republican (formerly Anti-Federal) party had been called Democrats since 1798; though colloquial abbrev. Demo dates to 1793.

demotic
1822, from Gk. demotikos "of or for the common people," from demos "common people," originally "district," from PIE *da-mo- "division," from base *da- "to divide" (see tide). In contrast to hieratic. Originally of the simpler of two forms of ancient Egyptian writing; broader sense is from 1831; used of Greek since 1927.
hieratic
1656 (implied in hieratical), from Gk. hieratikos, from hierateia "priesthood," from hierasthai "be a priest," from hiereus "priest," from hieros "sacred."

In ITS terminology will see the TRUE meaning of the society type of life, which is;

DEMOTIC=divide (demon) opposite to HIERATIC=unite (holly spirit)

And KRATOS=rule

All together make a DEMON-RULE (ANTI CRIST-RULE or ANTI HOLLY-RULE)

Greeks themselves knowingly APPLY this kind of society and SPREAD around the world under a (LIE) meaning “freedom of people”?????????

In their history of explaining their "democracy" is says:

“Athenian democracy, the tyrants, and the archons, Athens was ruled by kings. Most of these are probably mythical or only semi-historical.”

Is it BEEN RULED BY AN TYRANTS = FREEDOM OF THE PEOPLE???????

THIS IS TOTALLY WRONG and NEEDS TO BE STOPPED IMMEDIATELY as WELL AS CONTINUE USE OF THE TERM "DEMOCRACY"!!!!!

With “Greeks” been find RESPONSIBLE for SPREADING INHUMANITY AROUND THE WORLD!!!!! ѕвезда

Постирано од: borec
Датум на внесување: 09.Јануари.2008 во 20:11

SEEING IS BELIVING - "TRUE" ATHENS KINGS, very funny!!!!!!!!

Before the Athenian democracy, the tyrants, and the archons, Athens was ruled by kings. Most of these are probably mythical or only semi-historical. This list is based on that given by Eusebius.

Do you get that: "Before the ATHENIAN DEMOCRACY, the TYRANS, and the ARCHONS, Athens was ruled by kings."??????

So that's TRUE Athenian DEMOCRACY=TYRANTS=ARCHONS!!!!!!
Isn't that familiar to YOU - offcourse, the TODAY "GREEK DEMOCRACY"!!!!!!

AND THEIR "BEFORE and AFTER kings" - WELL...Cecrops was considered the first TRUE (ha..true???) king of Athens, although he was a mythical HALF-MAN HALF-SERPENT....(you must admit, THAT'S "realy true"). ѕвезда

For more, half on half's, please check:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_of_Athens - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_of_Athens